Does something need to be done about dogs?

I wonder why the current trend is to buy attack dogs... I mean it's great if you get attacked, but they do not make great pets when they eat your child.. horses for courses and all that.
 
mattyfez said:
I wonder why the current trend is to buy attack dogs... I mean it's great if you get attacked, but they do not make great pets when they eat your child.. horses for courses and all that.
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I can state unequivcally that attack dogs with decent owners that maintain discipline are not the ones people have to worry about. I've known owners with Alsatians, Dobermans, even Rottweilers that have trained their dogs to be as friendly as a chinchilla to people in the community unless they use a specific word. I think the problem comes in with the fashion statement that is a staffie, and it hurts the reputation of the dog as well. That's my personal belief anyway.
 
eldergeek said:
I can state unequivcally that attack dogs with decent owners that maintain discipline are not the ones people have to worry about. I've known owners with Alsatians, Dobermans, even Rottweilers that have trained their dogs to be as friendly as a chinchilla to people in the community unless they use a specific word. I think the problem comes in with the fashion statement that is a staffie, and it hurts the reputation of the dog as well. That's my personal belief anyway.
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It's a circular debate... I have known german shepherds, dobermans, and rotwillers I feel very comfortable around, and my dog (a yorkie) is happy to play with.

It's both breed and owner.

I wouldnt go near, never let my dog go near a staffie/pit bull type dog, they are too unpredictable, and they are usually owned by the kind of people who are so shameless they wear grey tracksuit trousers and fake North face puffer Jackets in public.

In other words, the worst kind of dog combined with the worst kind of dog owener.
 
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eldergeek said:
I can state unequivcally that attack dogs with decent owners that maintain discipline are not the ones people have to worry about. I've known owners with Alsatians, Dobermans, even Rottweilers that have trained their dogs to be as friendly as a chinchilla to people in the community unless they use a specific word. I think the problem comes in with the fashion statement that is a staffie, and it hurts the reputation of the dog as well. That's my personal belief anyway.
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Are these 'attack dogs' though? Rotties especially were bred for multiple purposes. We had a Rottie cross and she was softest friendliest dog you could meet. Really clever too. She could open doors to get out of the house. When the doors were locked, she went out of an upstairs window by climbing on a desk, slid down the sloping roof and jumped onto the ground outside, thankfully not injuring herself. We didn't train her or want her to do any of these things. We had to do some serious detective work to figure out how she got out of the house.
 
Attack dogs are very popular with idiots as has been mentioned, there's probably a higher chance than average they carry a weapon of some sort or atleast have one or more in their council flat, they drink beer in the morning, listen to happy hardcore or bob marley while smoking weed, look up to 'hard' people, buy knock off stuff freshly stolen from supermarkets (or they steal it themselves), buy fake everything includings fags, booze and clothes, and sign on at the local DWP office every week or 2 (or the more clever one's are on long term sickness benefits for made up or exaggerated illnesses). Puzzles me why normal folk would want a dog heavily associated with that culture tbh, maybe underneath they're chavs in nicer clothes :D
 
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ANDREW GREEN said:
Are these 'attack dogs' though? Rotties especially were bred for multiple purposes.
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Rotties, Dobermans, GSDs and Staffies have all had previous reputations for being demon dogs, either because they were the chavscum status dog of choice at the time, and/or because they were once used as guard/attack dogs by the enforcement entities of questionable regimes. They even started calling them "Alsatians" because the term 'German Shepherd' identified them as the dogs used at PoW and concentration camps to bring down escaping prisoners... which is ironic, given how the Police today use them to bring down escaping suspects, albeit with less focus on the lethality.

Rotties and Dobermans were the breeds of choice for private security companies, in the day when hopping a fence and getting your face bitten off was considered your own stupid fault for tresspassing... even if you were illiterate scum and couldn't read the warning signs.
Staffies suffered when their lines were mixed with more aggressive dogs by backstreet fight-breeders. Happily, I now see very few Staffie-type dogs used as status dogs and they're on their way back to being decent family pets.
 
ttaskmaster said:
Rotties, Dobermans, GSDs and Staffies have all had previous reputations for being demon dogs, either because they were the chavscum status dog of choice at the time, and/or because they were once used as guard/attack dogs by the enforcement entities of questionable regimes. They even started calling them "Alsatians" because the term 'German Shepherd' identified them as the dogs used at PoW and concentration camps to bring down escaping prisoners... which is ironic, given how the Police today use them to bring down escaping suspects, albeit with less focus on the lethality.

Rotties and Dobermans were the breeds of choice for private security companies, in the day when hopping a fence and getting your face bitten off was considered your own stupid fault for tresspassing... even if you were illiterate scum and couldn't read the warning signs.
Staffies suffered when their lines were mixed with more aggressive dogs by backstreet fight-breeders. Happily, I now see very few Staffie-type dogs used as status dogs and they're on their way back to being decent family pets.
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I can understand these points. But Rotties I've had a soft spot for since having a Rotti mix who was an amazing loving intelligent dog and walking past neighbours Rotties who were acting as guard dogs, but when you talked to them sympathetically they started befriending me.

GSDs I've always found intimidating as they do seem to bark at people and act threatening. @413x almost certainly has a different view of this dog that he clearly loves

Staffies, I'm told can be great around families, although I can find them too mouthy in play around my dog
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
Staffies, I'm told can be great around families, although I can find them too mouthy in play around my dog
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With all of them, it just tallies with the assertions that breeding and upbringing greatly affect the individual.
The problem we have with XLBs is that most of the ones imported to the UK are from (very) bad breeding and often highly questionable upbringing.
 
The issue with large, powerful dogs is that when something bad happens, its really bad. Its like saying that there is no issue with massive lifted trucks and huge SUVs because the only time they kill people is when bad drivers are behind the wheel. It doesn't matter. The consequences are horrible.

As a dog owner there should be a very high level of personal responsibility for the owner if the dog ever does something bad. I don't care if your dog was wonderful and scared of its own shadow before it attacked and seriously hurt someone. Your dog, your responsibility and you suffer the repercussions.
 
fez said:
The issue with large, powerful dogs is that when something bad happens, its really bad.
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I agree with what you say about the responsibility aspect.
For the most part, there are plenty of large and powerful dogs that are statistically capable of far more damage than even an XLB, yet we've bred and raised them responsibly to the point where incidents are exceedingly rare. In fact, incidents tend to involve the breeds commonly owned by more casual owners, which again is reflective of the responsible ownership aspect.
 
sidimmu said:
Nothing to see here, usual suspects dont care how many people and children die or are maimed.
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Since you've not directly named me (as if such a thing were necessary) but you typically only refer to me with such things anyway, I imagine you'll again be quite incensed at me responding to your remarks...
Worth noting that neither people nor children (which most people would assert are the same thing) were harmed in this incident. Only a few alpacas.

sidimmu said:
Sounds like its a sensible decision to ban them then, only a fool would think otherwise.
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Cars have been found to have design flaws or manufacturing defects - The sensible approach there was to fix the problems, not ban the cars.
The sensible decision here is also to fix the problems, but that would require people to actually think and put in some effort.

Strangely enough, fixing things is the sensible solution to many of society's problems, but people prefer to try and sweep it under the rug and bury their heads under a ban...
So tell me - Is it foolish to want stuff that works, or foolish to just blindly prohibit everything in case it hurts you?
 
ttaskmaster said:
Since you've not directly named me (as if such a thing were necessary) but you typically only refer to me with such things anyway, I imagine you'll again be quite incensed at me responding to your remarks...
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My replies are not limited to you, but do everything you can to make it about you. You're like a small yapping dog, always needing attention.

ttaskmaster said:
Cars have been found to have design flaws or manufacturing defects - The sensible approach there was to fix the problems, not ban the cars.
The sensible decision here is also to fix the problems, but that would require people to actually think and put in some effort.
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Not comparable, why do you bring in the most weird and non comparable comparisons each time.
Yes we can fix cars which have been fully man made and built. You cannot do that to an animal.

ttaskmaster said:
So tell me - Is it foolish to want stuff that works, or foolish to just blindly prohibit everything in case it hurts you?
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Things get banned when you can not control or change them.
ttaskmaster said:
most of the ones imported to the UK are from (very) bad breeding and often highly questionable upbringing.
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You cannot change that or them, thats why they require banning and destroying.
 
The problem with that car anology is that design or manufacturing defects can be addressed directly in a relatively short period of time, usually at the manufacturer's expense.

Addressing this problem with dangerous dogs requires getting through to the idiot owners and probably a ridiculous amount of taxpayer resources to make sure said owners do what's required.

Fixing a problem, or at least significantly reducing the problem, can also be done through prohibition. No one is suggesting that it can be fixed 100%, as there will always be people who completely disobey the law. It needs to be nipped in the bud at the root instead of trying to enforce bans on certain breeds when there are already tens of thousands of them in the country.
 
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