Doing a spot of hiking

[D.P.]

not convinced by exclusively taking trainers - if you are on a monitored marathon route fine,
If you are in an autonomous party and the route may end with a tired descent at dusk, involves any scree descents or scrambling, having some ankle support, that boots offer, helps,
grip of a more rigid vibram sole is reassuring - I have some zamberlan's.
e: 700g each apparently

Not really. It is a complete myth that a boot provides any ankle support whatsoever. There was a study a few years ago that showed risks of ankle injury in boots was higher, likely due to the weight.

To reiterate what i said previously - i have done many multi-day trail races in the alps covering 370km, 29k m climbing on mountain paths and half the time traveling at night (sleeping 1hr every 24hrs, even if in the daytime).

most of my trail running shoes have a vibram sole or something better, that isn't really an argument. You can even get some with built-in spikes (la sportiva Blizzard).

700g each is twice as heavy as a trail runner

where boots are required is when front pointing a 55° ice field with a pair of 14 pt crampns, dual ice-axes in hand, leading to a mixed ice-rock climb at grade 5 etc.

 

[200sols]

I still prefer boots

 

[Kenai]

There was a study a few years ago that showed risks of ankle injury in boots was higher, likely due to the weight.

Got a link? Would be interested to read it as it so directly opposes my personal experience, would be good to understand how they reached that conclusion.

 

[D.P.]

Got a link? Would be interested to read it as it so directly opposes my personal experience, would be good to understand how they reached that conclusion.

I can't find the original paper but it seems more research is supporting this hypothesis.

The effect of high-top and low-top shoes on ankle inversion kinematics and muscle activation in landing on a tilted surface

There is still uncertainty concerning the beneficial effects of shoe collar height for ankle sprain prevention and very few data are available in the literature regarding the effect of high-top and low-top shoes on muscle responses during landing. The ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Results
No significant differences were observed between the various types of shoes in the maximum ankle inversion angle, the ankle inversion range of motion, and the maximum ankle inversion angular velocity after foot contact for all conditions

Conclusion
These findings provide preliminary evidence suggesting that wearing high-top shoes can, in certain conditions, induce a delayed pre-activation timing and decreased amplitude of evertor muscle activity, and may therefore have a detrimental effect on establishing and maintaining functional ankle joint stability

The paper i remember was an empirical study of long distance hikers (pacific crest trail and the like) where they found thode with boots reported significantly higher rates of ankle sprains. They then also did MRI scans and some physiology tests. The hypothesis is that most boots the ankle area is far too soft to actually be preventive in any way, but at the same can inhibit natural mobility which increases risks of rolling an ankle, and also it weakens the muscles and ligaments used to support your ankle - with trail running shoes you essentially adapt to have stronger ankles, so again the risk increases .


In essence you need a proper mountaineering boot to have any significant reduction is the severity of an ankle roll, but in doing so you trade an increase in the likelihood of doing so, and are absolutely horrific to wear for too long. Softer high top boots offer zero protection but the downsides of reduced mobility and ankle strength

You should more look at high top boots as a way to stop debris and snow entering the shoe so easily. The alternative is tight fitting stretchy gaiters.

 

[jpaul]

The route that was memorable for me where boots were essential was riding/running down waves of scree on the Sassolungo where we'd been climbing,
you just dug your heal in, and, had moved, were transported, a couple of feet before you took next step.
here it wan't the unexpected ankle roll shock you were trying to mitigate , you just wanted shock absorption with additional strengthening boots provide;
yes mountaineering scarpa would have been better but they are broader so you run the risk of tripping over your own feet :
- trade-off of taking heavy boots per se. during route but they could be offloaded on the second.

If you have a reasonable weight pack too, you aren't trail running, where nimbleness/ankle-dexterity is more useful.

general fitness obviously counts if you run regularly the muscles&ligiaments aren't weakened by intermittent boot use.

 

[weringo]

I use Scarpa Mojito Trail GTX shoes which I find provides good grip and cushioning for long trails and are sufficient for crossing small water obstacles as they are waterproof. I echo the above comments about boots - I bought a pair of Scarpa Mistrals and couldn't believe how restrictive they are in comparison to wearing shoes, so ditched them after a few wears.

Tempted to give some trail runners a go given the comments in this thread. Looks like they are 300g/pair lighter than my Mojitos which would be a pretty significant difference. How do people find the cushioning on trail runners vs hiking shoes for rocky terrain?

 

[413x]

Water just runs down you leg, or splashes over your ankle. The problem with waterproof shoes is the water then just stays inside rather drains out. And they aren't breathable so you sweat like a pig if above 5C

Yeah.
If water is gonna go over your shoe or down your leg better to not draining shoes.
I ditch my Gtx shoes in summer too as just get too hot.

 

[413x]

I use Scarpa Mojito Trail GTX shoes which I find provides good grip and cushioning for long trails and are sufficient for crossing small water obstacles as they are waterproof. I echo the above comments about boots - I bought a pair of Scarpa Mistrals and couldn't believe how restrictive they are in comparison to wearing shoes, so ditched them after a few wears.

Tempted to give some trail runners a go given the comments in this thread. Looks like they are 300g/pair lighter than my Mojitos which would be a pretty significant difference. How do people find the cushioning on trail runners vs hiking shoes for rocky terrain?

Mine are super springy. Like you can feel the cushioning.
Can't really compare to hiking shoes as I've never really worn them as they just hurt too much.
I also find boots too restrictive like you. I don't like my ankles being locked in. I find it hurts my balance.

 

[Rroff]

The trail shoes I use have a Ortholite anatomical footbed - when doing any real distance especially on challenging terrain it is almost like cheating.

Tempted to give some trail runners a go given the comments in this thread. Looks like they are 300g/pair lighter than my Mojitos which would be a pretty significant difference. How do people find the cushioning on trail runners vs hiking shoes for rocky terrain?

You do have to pay some attention to the soles on trail runners - often the grip on the heel isn't really ideal for hiking/more challenging terrain due to the difference in purpose, but I'd highly recommend that approach in general, any decent ones should be fine with rocky terrain.

 

[Street]

i also go for dexshells over sealskinz but will rarely use them. Not least all waterproof socks have a very limited life span

I don't use mine outside of the winter months really, but for running around a boggy Peak/Lakes in winter, I find they're the difference between being able to feel my feet or not by the time I get back to the car. I also seem to suffer with cold feet mountain biking in the winter, I guess because my feet are more static and the thicker ones are fantastic for that.

If you have a reasonable weight pack too, you aren't trail running, where nimbleness/ankle-dexterity is more useful.

Quite often, I've packed into huts wearing trail runners, carrying my mountaineering boots and gear and then left them in the hut and used my boots for the actual climbing. There's nothing quite like the feeling of getting back to a hut and being able to swap back to light weight shoes for the long slog back down to the valley!

 

[PC777]

I'm more of an urban walker in that I walk almost everywhere in my daily life and often walk around SW London's many parks, which I suppose could be considered a hike off track in the bigger parks. Just my experience with boots vs shoes. I normally always use Vibram soled walking/hiking shoes with no issues, my last pair shoes the Vibram soles finally went through and I switched to an older pair of Nike hiking boots I hadn't worn much.

Within 50 miles my ankle began to hurt from the boots. I bought another pair of Vibram sole shoes and it fixed the issue almost immediately. So in my instance I definitely prefer hiking shoes to hiking boots. I still like wearing Timberland style boots for casual use, but definitely find the ankles more restricted in boots for walking.

 

[Angst]

App wise I'm a fan of garmins 'explore' app. I use alltrails and outdoor active to find routes and then export the gpx files to the garmin app so that I can use them offline without needing a subscription to the other apps.

 

[D.P.]

I use Scarpa Mojito Trail GTX shoes which I find provides good grip and cushioning for long trails and are sufficient for crossing small water obstacles as they are waterproof. I echo the above comments about boots - I bought a pair of Scarpa Mistrals and couldn't believe how restrictive they are in comparison to wearing shoes, so ditched them after a few wears.

Tempted to give some trail runners a go given the comments in this thread. Looks like they are 300g/pair lighter than my Mojitos which would be a pretty significant difference. How do people find the cushioning on trail runners vs hiking shoes for rocky terrain?

In general the cushioning is better in trail running shoes but there is a big variance by design. You get more minimalist shoes with loads of grip and a tight fit for doing super technical fast sky-running type events, at the other end is super soft max cushioned shoes, and everything in-between. Some have rock-plates but most don't because the flexibility is more important and good cushioning negates the need for a plate

 

[D.P.]

I


Quite often, I've packed into huts wearing trail runners, carrying my mountaineering boots and gear and then left them in the hut and used my boots for the actual climbing. There's nothing quite like the feeling of getting back to a hut and being able to swap back to light weight shoes for the long slog back down to the valley!

This is quite normal. Any alpine boot that will actually protect your ankles and feet and can take crampons are just horrible to walk in. You used to be able to buy so-called approach shoes but now trail-runners have taken over that market

 

[jpaul]

cushioning - footbeds in weekly trail shoes replaced with sorbothane ones, similarly for boots, & 1-2mm sliver ones in mountaineering boot - their endurance usually exceeds life of trail shoes.

 

[slinxy]

I've walked miles in these crocs ,this is on my 2019 Camino (was a bit more scrawny then) would alternate with trainer's, the Spanish females were most impressed tbh

Have you seen the all terrain crocs? I’ve got a pair and can’t wait to try them out.

Didn’t have them when I went away last year and I did look so wanting when I saw some other bloke wearing his crocs on holiday.. had to explain it to him as he may have thought that I wanted him daughter… but there was only so many pairs of footwear I could take.

 

[slinxy]

I'm jealous of you lot with good feet!

In what way is your feet bad? Any you tried to fix them?

 

[moon man]

Have you seen the all terrain crocs? I’ve got a pair and can’t wait to try them out.

Didn’t have them when I went away last year and I did look so wanting when I saw some other bloke wearing his crocs on holiday.. had to explain it to him as he may have thought that I wanted him daughter… but there was only so many pairs of footwear I could take.

No but they sound great, I drove to trebarwith once for a port Issac return walk and had my crocs on by mistake so did it anyway and with no problems.
One tip I use is suncream on feet for lube/ blister protection in addition to sun protection

Edit /.removed text from an unposted old reply

 

[413x]

In what way is your feet bad? Any you tried to fix them?

They are flat, dead flat, and I believe my knees/feet/hips aren't properly aligned. This manifests in shin splint type pain.

I had to give up running as no matter what orthotics I had it wasn't enough.. The coach even told me to quit. And he was right.

Its why I took up kayaking and MTB and limit walks to about 10-15 miles as, so far, anything more gives me grief

 

[slinxy]

They are flat, dead flat, and I believe my knees/feet/hips aren't properly aligned. This manifests in shin splint type pain.

I had to give up running as no matter what orthotics I had it wasn't enough.. The coach even told me to quit. And he was right.

Its why I took up kayaking and MTB and limit walks to about 10-15 miles as, so far, anything more gives me grief

I had a similar issue, flat feet are caused by lazy feet… modern cushioning causes it and as a result causes the feet to be wider and spread out, causing rubbing in areas.

Try bare sole, minimalist trainers… google it… it strengthen the feet and pulls them back into shape. But it does hurt when you first wear them.