Why not?
Because you don’t like it?
Firewalk studios probably thought they were maximising profit and growth and look what happened to them.
Dragon Age: The Veilguard
- Thread starter JJimmyJ
- Start date
Because you don’t like it?
There is no irony, and your attempt at a straw man here isn't working, this is clearly far more complicated and widespread then you're making out and you know it, you're intentionally being disingenuous.
I completely agree that it's far too big and complicated a topic to cover in a conversation about a game, which is why i said it's probably better suited to Speakers Corner than here. No-one here on either side is able to properly cover all the facets without writing a thesis for every post.
Even if you bought BG1 and 2, all the Neverwinter nights games, Kotor 1 and 2 and all the other Dragon age games, you should shut up and not have an opinion on whether this game is any good or not,
You certainly shouldn't have any opinion on if the quality of BioWare as a studio has declined or speculate on any sort of reason why that might be.
If you are a fan of the old games, maybe this new, more inclusive game just isn't for you.
You certainly shouldn't have any opinion on if the quality of BioWare as a studio has declined or speculate on any sort of reason why that might be.
If you are a fan of the old games, maybe this new, more inclusive game just isn't for you.
Caporegime
Well... the thing is these people themselves keep telling us the same thing and then we don't play their games, the studio closes, they lose their jobs and then blame us for not playing their games because bigotry and misogyny.
This sort of discourse is also not helpful, its not a gotcha to say well if you don't like it don't play it, your job depends on us liking it, if you make a product no one wants to buy then you don't have a product and with that no job, so get used to making products for bigots and misogynists.
I think the current troubles in the games industry are a lot more complicated than people not wanting to play DEI games.
Exploding budgets with diminishing returns, attention being split across a lot more places than previously, companies being shut down because while perfectly profitible they weren't growing enough, the end of the 0% era leading to it being much harder to finance games as there isn't free money any more, a history of over hiring and overpaying for staff during the 0% interest era leading to a contraction in staff size etc. etc.
I'm not diminishing the fact that it's clearly playing a part, but it's all intertwined and difficult to pick apart.
Exploding budgets with diminishing returns, attention being split across a lot more places than previously, companies being shut down because while perfectly profitible they weren't growing enough, the end of the 0% era leading to it being much harder to finance games as there isn't free money any more, a history of over hiring and overpaying for staff during the 0% interest era leading to a contraction in staff size etc. etc.
I'm not diminishing the fact that it's clearly playing a part, but it's all intertwined and difficult to pick apart.
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Caporegime
The gaming industry suffering as a whole is a weak argument, 2024 has been one of the best years for gamers in a long time, right off the top of my head i can think of half a dozen 2024 games that enjoyed huge success, most of those despite gaming journalists doing everything they could to stop that.
There are simply good games and bad games, there is a clear and obvious distinction between them, because of course there is, you're supposed to notice it, its deliberately designed to be in your face its the whole damn point.
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By jove, I think you’re getting the idea.
I'm honestly not sure how I can argue with such a simplistic view of the world. You're all so deep in your own bubble you think your reality exists everywhere and for everyone. There are so many people who play games who have never even heard of the term DEI.
Caporegime
Its not just the politics they have on display, no one has a problem with that Per se, look at Boulders Gate 3, its how that is delved and the quality of the end product, with DEI hiring practices you're never going to get the quality of merit as you do when you hire purely based on merit.
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This sentiment would apply to a far greater degree if it was applied only to products generated from new IP's.
If BioWare had a few years ago announced the "Queerosexual Gendermancer" game as a new IP no doubt it would have generated some mockery and incredulation.
But what it would not have done is aroused the annoyance that we see with DA:Veilguard where quite a lot of people think that yet another IP has been ruined by zealous activists using previously loved franchises as a perverse skin suit for their thinky veiled propaganda resulting in yet another disappointing product both 'commercially' and for most of the fans.
Indeed there might be some market for the "Queerosexual Gendermancer" game but when tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars are being spent on a game it needs to appeal to quite a wide audience to justify it's existence.
You may have noticed but quite a few 'stinkers' have been released recently...
'Review bombing' in this context is a protest about a game and the circumstances around ot so why would let's say a new IP generic game that was poor get 'review bombed'?
DA:Veilguard was 'review bombed' as a protest exactly because what had come out from the previews and leaks was a game that didn't respect the source material and art style complete with some cringeworthy incoherent genderwang inserted.
Bad games that dont ruin existing IP's just get bad reviews.
When ever some sequel/ prequel etc comes out from a previously beloved franchise and it isn't a great film/ game etc there will always tend to be people speculating on quite what happened to cause the disappointment. No different in this case.
Politics will always be a part of games it's both the players 'inserting' them.
Part it why DA:Veilguard hasn't been well received is because some of thr politics inserted both makes no sense within thr lore and is cringeworthy to most people. It was a decision of the developers of the game to insert that stuff.
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Right back at you.
To be clear. It's 100% ok to talk about DEI, to discuss the benefits and disadvantages of it and how it has shaped culture over the last 10 years.
What I ultimately disagree with is it being made the boogeyman, the one and only reason that everything has gone wrong and the idea that removing it will suddenly fix everything.
I wish I had that much faith in capatalism and major corporations. Personally i think the problem is a combination late stage capatalism and enshitification. We could remove DEI tomorrow and games wouldn't improve - the problem is that they're not trying to make good games like they used to. They're trying to make profit and growth centres and they've realised they can do it while screwing over both the games company employees and fans of games.
What I ultimately disagree with is it being made the boogeyman, the one and only reason that everything has gone wrong and the idea that removing it will suddenly fix everything.
I wish I had that much faith in capatalism and major corporations. Personally i think the problem is a combination late stage capatalism and enshitification. We could remove DEI tomorrow and games wouldn't improve - the problem is that they're not trying to make good games like they used to. They're trying to make profit and growth centres and they've realised they can do it while screwing over both the games company employees and fans of games.
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Caporegime
The hard and fast truth is this: money does not care who you are or what you look like, it only cares about how much more money you can generate.
That is a centrist, maybe slightly right wing philosophy, the left might argue this is unfair in a world of minorities vs majorities and the majority being better suited to make products for the majority, hence the left wing concept of 'equality of outcome', what that cannot ignore is that 'equality of opportunity' is the most lucrative, while it is not the most virtues it is also the purest of social resposibility.
That is a centrist, maybe slightly right wing philosophy, the left might argue this is unfair in a world of minorities vs majorities and the majority being better suited to make products for the majority, hence the left wing concept of 'equality of outcome', what that cannot ignore is that 'equality of opportunity' is the most lucrative, while it is not the most virtues it is also the purest of social resposibility.
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Fair point, I kind of dragged myself into the conversation didnt I. It's interesting though and I'm doing it because I want to challenge my own views. For my own part I probably went in too hard at the beginning.
So it has got some trans stuff in it, we get the point that some people don't like that. But is the game any good other than that?
From my limited playtime the dialogue is a bit cringeworthy and the gameplay is basic because it's a dumbed down action RPG, but it is still quite fun. It's leagues better than Mass Effect Andromeda though, now that game was badly made and the most cringeworthy load of nonsense I've ever seen.
From my limited playtime the dialogue is a bit cringeworthy and the gameplay is basic because it's a dumbed down action RPG, but it is still quite fun. It's leagues better than Mass Effect Andromeda though, now that game was badly made and the most cringeworthy load of nonsense I've ever seen.
