Dune (2020) - Denis Villeneuve

ArcticHeron · 18 May 2023 at 13:25

Jonny2284 said:
^ All of that. The audible version is great, although a bit wierd in how it does things (As Steampunk says the prominent characters get their own actors, if a chapter features just them it's done like an audiodrama. If the scene features other characters it's back to the main narrator, including him voicing the other characters).

Annoys me slightly that does, it's becoming more popular to do it that way as well. Ends up sounding more like a Radio play then an Audiobook which is fine, but there's an important distinction there I wouldn't want to see blurred. A good narrator will interpret the characters well and give the interesting vocal characteristics as well as accents and pitches. Getting a cast in just feels a bit lazy when you consider what Roy Dotrice was asked to do with the 'ASoIaF' series.

Still like the Dune Audiobook though.

Jonny2284 · 18 May 2023 at 15:11

Yeah, I read them books way back then, and after the film came out I spent a few backlogged audible credits on the first four Dune novels (I daren't go any further a second time, I know how bad it gets) and it's ok, but I'd prefer either a straight audiobook or if they want to go down the audiodrama route get someone like GraphicAudio on it and go all in on the adaptation.

kakarott · 18 May 2023 at 18:06

gettothechopper said:
Everyone loves the dinner scene and lots were disappointed it didn't make the film, someone said it was filmed but got cut out

Damn so no directors cut in the pipeline?

Mint8 · 18 May 2023 at 18:35

Villeneuve doesnt "do" Directors Cuts apparently - based on the fact he feels the original is always his "cut"

kakarott · 21 May 2023 at 05:13

Watched the 1984 movie yesterday. Seemed really rused any no where near good as the modern one. But is that how book 1 ends with the weather scene?

Steampunk · 21 May 2023 at 13:45

kakarott said:
Watched the 1984 movie yesterday. Seemed really rused any no where near good as the modern one. But is that how book 1 ends with the weather scene?

No. It actually makes no sense and Herbert reportedly didn't like that ending. In fact, if it rained on Arrakis, all the worms would be killed and spice production would stop as water is poisonous to the worms, but it's a dramatic ending that implies Paul has turned the desert into a lush heaven with rain. IIRC the ending of the first book is Paul deposing the Emperor and taking over at the start of the Fremen jihad after he takes back the city of Arrakeen.

The whole movie is a bit of a mixed bag, trying to tell a story that was considered unfilmable (and mostly was in the 80's), long before the VFX capabilities we have now. For example, the personal shield effects were pretty much done by hand, frame by frame and took a very long time.

It was Lynch's first big budget film, and he was getting so much grief and contradicting pull from the studio, producers, and everyone else involved that it became a mess of ideas (including his own). After this experience, he said he would never do another big budget studio movie, and I don't think he has in all the years since. The was a rumoured four hour plus rough cut that was shown to the crew, there was a theatrical cut, a longer directors cut, and a TV cut inbetween with scenes that were in neither.

When you consider what was going on with the production and how much was cut out (compared to the new version that is probably going to be about five hours across two films just to get to the end of the first book), it's no wonder the Lynch version wasn't well received and has aged quite poorly.

From IMDB:

David Lynch, director of the previous Dune (1984), stated that he has "zero interest in Dune (2021)". He cited that his issues with the new movie have nothing to do with director Denis Villeneuve but with his own painful memories of making the 1984 version: "Because it was a heartache for me. It was a failure and I didn't have final cut. I've told this story a billion times. It's not the film I wanted to make. I like certain parts of it very much - but it was a total failure for me."

Efour · 22 May 2023 at 04:50

Gurney singing his drinking and whoring songs playing his baliset is the epic.
This is why I dig the sci-fi channel miniseries. It's super hammy but it's good to the story.

Steampunk · 22 May 2023 at 14:19

Efour said:
Gurney singing his drinking and whoring songs playing his baliset is the epic.
This is why I dig the sci-fi channel miniseries. It's super hammy but it's good to the story.

The mini-series didn't have the budget of the big movies, but the one thing they do have is time to spend with the characters and be more faithful to the original story. That extra run-time of a TV show allows the production to be more complete than any film. Just compare the time of the two Villeneuve films (probably about five hours in total) compared to the audio book's run time of twenty-one hours. That's a massive amount of original story that has to be carved off the bone to make even a relatively long film doable.

kakarott · 22 May 2023 at 14:40

Steampunk said:
The mini-series didn't have the budget of the big movies, but the one thing they do have is time to spend with the characters and be more faithful to the original story. That extra run-time of a TV show allows the production to be more complete than any film. Just compare the time of the two Villeneuve films (probably about five hours in total) compared to the audio book's run time of twenty-one hours. That's a massive amount of original story that has to be carved off the bone to make even a relatively long film doable.

Is the mini series better than the 1984 movie?

Efour · 22 May 2023 at 16:58

kakarott said:
Is the mini series better than the 1984 movie?

Lol watch it and come back and say.
It's like a highschool production compared to the film's budgets but it's still great.
The guild guys crack me up, compared to films versions.

I hope the new film goes guild deep, they were sorely missing from part 1.

Steampunk · 23 May 2023 at 00:38

kakarott said:
Is the mini series better than the 1984 movie?

In some ways yes, in others, no. It's a different adaptation of the original book compared to Lynch's film adaptation. There are some good performances from great actors, a very good attempt to stick to the story and characterisation. The sets range from not bad to pretty good, and the costumes are freaky in an idiosyncratic way. Where it lacks is in the visual effects and the big budget gloss you get with big movies.
It's a different way to experience the original work, in some ways feeling like a stage play that is being filmed. IIRC it has a bit of weirdness just from being a pan-European and US production that gives varied accents in the delivery.

For a Dune completist, it's a must see different take on the book. In a lot of ways it hangs together better than the 1984 movie, and if you watch both mini-series, it actually takes you all the way to the end of the third book (Children of Dune) with a very young James McAvoy playing Leto II. It's a good attempt that takes the source material seriously and treats it with respect.

kakarott · 23 May 2023 at 09:24

Will give it a try then.

Btw in the audiobook, it days book 2 mu'adib started at 8hr40mins? Thought this is all book 1? Unless its a chapter?

Efour · 23 May 2023 at 11:23

2 parts to first book

kakarott · 19 Jun 2023 at 23:23

Just finished the audiobook and I see now so many things that weren't in the move and can't make it in part 2. I had a few questions but forgot most lol.

Btw is messiah a shorter book because the audio book seems to be around 8 hours compared to book one which was 21 hours.

Steampunk · 20 Jun 2023 at 07:50

kakarott said:
Just finished the audiobook and I see now so many things that weren't in the move and can't make it in part 2. I had a few questions but forgot most lol.

Btw is messiah a shorter book because the audio book seems to be around 8 hours compared to book one which was 21 hours.

Yes Dune Messiah is much shorter. IIRC, it's about half the size.

Dune contains so much more than they are ever going to get into a movie. Even a mini-series would struggle with less than twenty hours of TV to play with, just for the first book. It's a shame because so much of the missing stuff is clever, subtle, world and character building, but it's why reading the books is so important. Everything is just a fuller, more realised universe that explains the ambiguities in the film. I get that there are a lot of people that just don't like to read, but they don't know what they are missing.

kakarott · 2 Jul 2023 at 10:41

@Steampunk

Does Paul's story come to an end in Messiah, i.e. he dies?

Steampunk · 2 Jul 2023 at 11:13

kakarott said:
@Steampunk

Does Paul's story come to an end in Messiah, i.e. he dies?

At the end of Dune Messiah, Paul has decided to abandon the Golden Path, has lost Chani due to her death in childbirth, has become disillusioned with running the Empire and the changes in Fremen society, has resisted the offers of the Bene Tleilaxu despite the appearance of the Duncan Idaho ghola, and has lost his actual sight and future visions. Paul walks off into the desert to die in the traditional Fremen way. It is assumed that he dies, but it's never explicitly seen.

However, in Book 3, a preacher who decrys the changes in Fremen society, is against plans to turn Arakkis green and lush, and criticises the Atredies rule in particular, is revealed to be Paul just before he is killed in the chaos of Alia's public suicide (in a moment of clarity having realised she is an abomination possesed by the genetic personality of Baron Harkonnen). There's an ongoing story of people following the Preacher because they think he is Paul, but the whole of the book plays with the idea that he may, or may not be Paul.

So Paul does supposedly die at the end of Book 2 (he doesn't really), but comes back as another political/religious leader, this time stirring up discontent against the very rule he put into place ten years earlier. At the end of book 3, he truly does die, but after having seen the current Atredies reign effectively end, and sets up the situation for Leto II to become emperor and commit to becoming the God Tyrant and embark on the Golden Path.

Paul does put in the occasional appearance in book 4 as genetic memories and personality of Leto II, because he still exists in that form as an Atredies ancestor.

Bubo · 2 Jul 2023 at 13:15

Wrong thread

mid_gen · 2 Jul 2023 at 13:42

Have been slogging through the later books in audiobook format. Currently enduring God Emperor, but thankfully it's almost over.

The first book is ok, great world, poor writing, kinda balances out. It just progressively gets worse, I hate to think what the fanfic ones done more recently are like when the later Frank Herbert ones are so bad!

It'd be kinda hilarious to see someone try do a God Emperor TV or film adaptation, if they can find any actors that can keep a straight face talking to the half-man half-worm.

kakarott · 2 Jul 2023 at 20:44

Steampunk said:
At the end of Dune Messiah, Paul has decided to abandon the Golden Path, has lost Chani due to her death in childbirth, has become disillusioned with running the Empire and the changes in Fremen society, has resisted the offers of the Bene Tleilaxu despite the appearance of the Duncan Idaho ghola, and has lost his actual sight and future visions. Paul walks off into the desert to die in the traditional Fremen way. It is assumed that he dies, but it's never explicitly seen.

However, in Book 3, a preacher who decrys the changes in Fremen society, is against plans to turn Arakkis green and lush, and criticises the Atredies rule in particular, is revealed to be Paul just before he is killed in the chaos of Alia's public suicide (in a moment of clarity having realised she is an abomination possesed by the genetic personality of Baron Harkonnen). There's an ongoing story of people following the Preacher because they think he is Paul, but the whole of the book plays with the idea that he may, or may not be Paul.

So Paul does supposedly die at the end of Book 2 (he doesn't really), but comes back as another political/religious leader, this time stirring up discontent against the very rule he put into place ten years earlier. At the end of book 3, he truly does die, but after having seen the current Atredies reign effectively end, and sets up the situation for Leto II to become emperor and commit to becoming the God Tyrant and embark on the Golden Path.

Paul does put in the occasional appearance in book 4 as genetic memories and personality of Leto II, because he still exists in that form as an Atredies ancestor.

Thanks, was just wondering if Denis was planning to at least finish Paul's storyline in the movies.