DX11 only a short term advantage says NVIDIA

[mathwat]

really dont think anyone can say Nvidia are over priced after the whole ATI price are the moment

at these price's for old tech not even Dx10.1

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=701&catid=56&subid=1341

math

 

[Richdog]

What will happen is NV will release Fermi and ATi will repond by slashing prices by 30%-50%. Given how much Fermi will cost and how much NV have invested in it, this will seal its' doom for the mainstream market. ATI are only price-gouging now because they can, the profit maring on the cards as it stands must be massive, considering the tech and manufacturing processes pretty damn similar to the 4xxx series. The sad thing is that people will pay it regardless and this will eventually be the death knell for PC gaming as those who can't afford to keep up any more buy a console instead. The pc component market must be one of the only recession-proof businesses out there... in fact prices have risen, not fallen.

The UK is now more expensive than the rest of Europe for the 5xxx series of cards. Shameful, really, given the current climate.

 

[mathwat]

What will happen is NV will release Fermi and ATi will repond by slashing prices by 30%-50%. Given how much Fermi will cost and how much NV have invested in it, this will seal its' doom for the mainstream market. ATI are only price-gouging now because they can, the profit maring on the cards as it stands must be massive, considering the tech and manufacturing processes pretty damn similar to the 4xxx series. The sad thing is that people will pay it regardless and this will eventually be the death knell for PC gaming as those who can't afford to keep up any more buy a console instead. The pc component market must be one of the only recession-proof businesses out there... in fact prices have risen, not fallen.

The UK is now more expensive than the rest of Europe for the 5xxx series of cards. Shameful, really, given the current climate.

+1

 

[bru]

60 days lol thats a good one, so they have until monday 21st to launch thier new cards. I dont think thats gonning to happen somehow do you.

at least ill give this guy one thing he didnt just blattently **** off the opposition, he just points out that once they do launch thier direct X11 cards the time difference between direct X11 avalibility and Nvidia direct X11 cards will seem igsignificant. and on that front only time will tell, but hes proberbly right.

 

[mmj_uk]

They do have a point.

ATI rushed 5xxx to the market to coincide with W7 release but for what reason? they can claim to be the first to market with a DX11 part and charge excessive prices and that's about it (with bad supply I might add).

As far as DX11 is concerned it's still yet to even get started unless you can count Dirt 2, which is probably 95% DX9 with some last minute DX11 additions.

 

[lukext]

ATI rushed 5xxx to the market to coincide with W7 release but for what reason?

To have DX11 capable cards for dell and other OEMs (where most of ATI/AMD's money is made). They won a lot of high value contracts because they had cards ready for the win 7 launch and is part of the reason why the 5800 series is so elusive to the man on the street.

 

[Deleted member 76686]

They do have a point.

ATI rushed 5xxx to the market to coincide with W7 release but for what reason? they can claim to be the first to market with a DX11 part and charge excessive prices and that's about it (with bad supply I might add).

As far as DX11 is concerned it's still yet to even get started unless you can count Dirt 2, which is probably 95% DX9 with some last minute DX11 additions.

They weren't originally and the supply was actually rather good but outside factors made them take a hit such as TSMC and no competition which has resulted in massive demand.

 

[antran]

They do have a point.

ATI rushed 5xxx to the market to coincide with W7 release but for what reason? they can claim to be the first to market with a DX11 part and charge excessive prices and that's about it (with bad supply I might add).

As far as DX11 is concerned it's still yet to even get started unless you can count Dirt 2, which is probably 95% DX9 with some last minute DX11 additions.

ATI is not getting any competition from Nvidia, the 5870 was cheaper then the gtx 295 with similar performance when it was first released.

 

[Hairybudda]

They do have a point.

ATI rushed 5xxx to the market to coincide with W7 release but for what reason? they can claim to be the first to market with a DX11 part and charge excessive prices and that's about it (with bad supply I might add).

As far as DX11 is concerned it's still yet to even get started unless you can count Dirt 2, which is probably 95% DX9 with some last minute DX11 additions.

OEM sales and contracts = $$$, it wasn't rushed, TSMC messed things up for ATi (and nVidia), and you don't make the hardware after the games come out because that would be stupid, games come after people know what the hardware & API is capable of :v

 

[rolypolyman]

What will happen is NV will release Fermi and ATi will repond by slashing prices by 30%-50%. Given how much Fermi will cost and how much NV have invested in it, this will seal its' doom for the mainstream market. ATI are only price-gouging now because they can, the profit maring on the cards as it stands must be massive, considering the tech and manufacturing processes pretty damn similar to the 4xxx series. The sad thing is that people will pay it regardless and this will eventually be the death knell for PC gaming as those who can't afford to keep up any more buy a console instead. The pc component market must be one of the only recession-proof businesses out there... in fact prices have risen, not fallen.

The UK is now more expensive than the rest of Europe for the 5xxx series of cards. Shameful, really, given the current climate.

+2

 

[bru]

anyone who thinks prices will be slashed by 50% when fermi is launched is liveing in a fantasy land. yes im sure there will be price stabilization and proberbly price reductions aswell, but definatly nothing like 50%, nor the 30% in my oppinion. that would be £70 off of a 5850, it's just not going to happen.

the £70 is calculated from the rrp of around £220 after ati increased thier rrp just after launch.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

Not important yet then ey (won't be because you havn't got it yet would it ), so anyone up for a Dirt2 Dx11 removal patch then ??

Can hear that big sack of cash crashing down the Codies chimney now - 'MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM NVIDIA'

 

[rolypolyman]

The 5850 should have been £150 to £180 at launch the greedy b******* have been putting the price up steadily, because they can. Ocuk are one of the worse but another well known etailor currently have 5850 in stock at £274.99. I repeat, greedy b*******.

 

[mathwat]

Not important yet then ey (won't be because you havn't got it yet would it ), so anyone up for a Dirt2 Dx11 removal patch then ??

Can hear that big sack of cash crashing down the Codies chimney now - 'MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM NVIDIA'

LMAO well said

 

[Owenb]

The 5850 should have been £150 to £180 at launch the greedy b******* have been putting the price up steadily, because they can. Ocuk are one of the worse but another well known etailor currently have 5850 in stock at £274.99. I repeat, greedy b*******.

They should have sold a DX11 card that is faster than a GTX285 for about 60% of the price?

 

[rolypolyman]

They should have sold a DX11 card that is faster than a GTX285 for about 60% of the price?

Please don't compare the prices of Ati and Nvidia as nvidia have always been very expensive! The 4870 and 4890 prices were not this expensive 2 or 3 months after release. The 5800 series are not radically different from the 4800 series and don't deserve the current price tag. Don't forget the rrp at release was £180-£199 and yes I know Ati put it up again. But other tech prices continue to fall why should pc components be different. If this becomes a trend then pc gaming will suffer and be only for the well off. A well known retailer is currently asking £274.99 for instock 5850 and the norm seems to be £250 or more. If you think thats ok then fine, you pay it. We are in a recession and money is supposed to be tight and what are retailors doing, upping prices. I've said it before and I'll say it again Ocuk and other retailors should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Deleted member 76686]

Funny how many people seem to spot such things when on the receiving end, they often don't seem to realise when they are on the giving end of the price issue. The other issue is that it also makes some assumptions about how OCUK and others come by the stock they to have to buy.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Please don't compare the prices of Ati and Nvidia as nvidia have always been very expensive! The 4870 and 4890 prices were not this expensive 2 or 3 months after release. The 5800 series are not radically different from the 4800 series and don't deserve the current price tag. Don't forget the rrp at release was £180-£199 and yes I know Ati put it up again. But other tech prices continue to fall why should pc components be different. If this becomes a trend then pc gaming will suffer and be only for the well off. A well known retailer is currently asking £274.99 for instock 5850 and the norm seems to be £250 or more. If you think thats ok then fine, you pay it. We are in a recession and money is supposed to be tight and what are retailors doing, upping prices. I've said it before and I'll say it again Ocuk and other retailors should be ashamed of themselves.

Point you've forgotten though is chip demand. The 4 series are built on the older nm process that works, the new nm process the 5 series cards use has been beset by a LOT of issues over at TSMC, the guys who produce the chips for ATI.

They can't help that at all, the fact there is massive demand on top is what's causing this, and means suppliers are seeing the chance to make some cash, on what can be quite a tight margin business.

My 1900XT was £270. The RRP for the 5870 on release was £300. The fact demand and prices have gone up cannot be helped, we're in a supply and demand market and the demand is high whilst supply is relatively low. The 48 series was very very cheap for what it offered, I think sometimes people forget this, Nvidia cut there prices hugely when the 4 series came out!

 

[rolypolyman]

The only point I was trying to make really was that these cards are not being sold at rrp and in a lot of cases, considerably more. Post above touched on the crux of the matter:

'and means suppliers are seeing the chance to make some cash'.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

No I dont disagree, they're more expensive, but the shops aren't the only ones bumping the RRP difference, all the other people behind them are as well, largely because of a small rise in RRP, but also because the demand is there. Unless they're loss leaders (as in persuade people to buy something else at the same time), shops aren't going to sell them without making a profit, and if thier suppliers and the supply chain are charging more, then the price goes up.

Hell, I wish they were cheaper and supply was better (if nothing else so that my mobile cards come out sooner ) but right now TSMC aren't making it easier, which is why AMD are trying to swap to Global Foundries next year if possible.