DX11 to be announced in 2~ weeks, nvidia to talk about it too...

[VortexA1]

Care to elaborate?

..In that the original Microsoft directx 10 specification also included the 'dx 10.1' requirements however because Nvidia didn't have it - it was removed as the 'requirement' to claim to have a 'directx 10 card' and has been proven makes directx10 faster/more efficient when the original specs are in place.

 

[Big.Wayne]

Cheers VortexA1 but I'm still not following?

Are you suggesting some backroom deals took place between Microsoft and nVidia execs which led to to Microsoft adjusting their DirectX® 10 software to enhance nVidia hardware sales?

 

[VortexA1]

Cheers VortexA1 but I'm still not following?

Are you suggesting some backroom deals took place between Microsoft and nVidia execs which led to to Microsoft adjusting their DirectX® 10 software to enhance nVidia hardware sales?

Not that 'as such'.

Linky. http://www.directx.com/home.htm

Also quote from linky:

"Basically what I heard was that DX10.1 was what Microsoft wanted for Vista ship, but not all the major hardware vendors could get all the features in the current hardware generation."

 

[Amnesia]

what would be nice for dx11 is that u dont just need a new g.card..... but possibly atleast a quad core cpu so that the games would take advantage of it.
atm games take advantage of all the nice new features of our graphics cards yet the cpu's arent fully utilized.

i dont have a quad core but if i knew all new games would take advantage of all 4 cores then i would definitely buy one.

 

[FreeStream]

Yeah but if you want THE BEST...

The best is the matter for opinion, best value for money perhaps? ha ha

 

[The_Abyss]

There is a lot of misunderstanding in this thread.

Firstly, I can't believe that some people are saying 'nore DX11, no more updates'. Each update DOES bring incremental improvements and allows advances in technology. There's be outrage if the hardware didn't develop incrementally - look at all the hate in here towards Nvidia's 'extension' of the G80 series.

There certainly was some Nvidia influence on Microsoft releasing DX10 and not DX10.1 initially, but again, one should look at the background behind this. Whilst not justifying it, DX10 was the first DX API which had such intensive developer and manufacturer input, rather than with earlier versions which pretty much was a case of Microsoft saying "here it is, have fun". In this instance both Nvidia and ATI are as much to blame, as despite having access to Vista betas and RTMs including DX10 for well over 1 year in advance of the actual release, ATI still didn't have any DX10 card ready for release.

Moving on to 7 and DX11, I thought the two were mutually independent - Windows 7 should be late 2009 / early 2010 and DX11 was originally slated for late 2010 to mid 2011. Announcing DX11 is very very different to announcing a release date - again remember how long DX10 was announced before it was released (although it was tied to Vista).

Not going to get into a Vista v XP war. File transfer speeds were hotfixed well before SP1 was released - I've used Vista since day one and far prefer it to XP.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Theres nothing wrong with Vista really, the reason it hasn't had massive uptake is simple, they did too good a job with XP. Millenium, or 98se simply didn't have reliability in the same realm as XP did, so the uptake was good and semi quick. But even then business's that use lots of computers take a long time to roll out new software of any kind. Things like vista in a massive corporation heavily reliant on computers are very likely to take more than a year of testing all their software, making sure they know it just as well before even thinking about upgrading. But theres slightly less need to upgrade this time round compared to last time. IT doesn't make Vista bad, it just makes XP good.

ANyway, despite all that, I find it funny that MS would announce this with Nvidia, who screwed them on the past. It was Nvidia who essentially forced MS to change their DX10 spec, personally I'd work with the company, on forward thinking platform announcements, who always show the best forward thinking and are always trying to bring new innovative things to their hardware, rather than brute forcing with old tech which has always been Nvidia's way.

 

[Final8y]

personally I'd work with the company, on forward thinking platform announcements, who always show the best forward thinking and are always trying to bring new innovative things to their hardware, rather than brute forcing with old tech which has always been Nvidia's way.

Careful i got attacked here for saying things like that
And i notice now that allot of people here are saying similar now to what i was saying then.

 

[psychas]

so they making new operating system what a waste tbh why just not do dx11 on vista

 

[PitchWhite]

Not just that XP was good..but that Vista failed to bring any significant improvements..

XP was pretty much the end of the BSOD..huge increase in reliability. Plug and Play improvements all made for a much more usable environment.

Vista is only offering improvements in gimmicks..and with many products having driver issues it is therefore deemed less reliable and with the OS prompting if you 'really want to do this' anytime you try to run anything it's not surprising people were so disappointed with it.

What I would like to see is a "Game Boot" option integrated into the OS that would involve booting into a real bare bones environment that would maximise gaming performance.

I'm sure other people can come up with ideas they want to see featured in the next OS...and I'm pretty sure no one would care about semi-transparent window dragging or suchlike

 

[BubbySoup]

Firstly, I can't believe that some people are saying 'nore DX11, no more updates'. Each update DOES bring incremental improvements and allows advances in technology. There's be outrage if the hardware didn't develop incrementally - look at all the hate in here towards Nvidia's 'extension' of the G80 series.

The problem with your comparison is that new hardware can show immediate gains from the moment it is powered up. With software it takes time for developers to take advantage of a new API. Coupled with the ever increasing development times of software titles, the public is really not seeing any benefit of one revision of an API before a new one is announced.

I mean, when websites have to zoom in on screenshots to show you the subtle differences between 2 API's, is our gaming experience actually being improved?

 

[Talrinys]

The problem with your comparison is that new hardware can show immediate gains from the moment it is powered up. With software it takes time for developers to take advantage of a new API. Coupled with the ever increasing development times of software titles, the public is really not seeing any benefit of one revision of an API before a new one is announced.

I mean, when websites have to zoom in on screenshots to show you the subtle differences between 2 API's, is our gaming experience actually being improved?

They don't have to zoom in to show the difference between 2 API's, the API's themselves make a huge difference to developers, whether they choose to take advantage of the features are up to themself.

 

[Samione]

Well one of the "big" DX11 features is tessellation, something ATI has had since R600

Err, what? Unless the directX version supported by the card supports tessellation, then it's a pointless feature right? So what are you talking about? Do you even know what context they're referring to tessellation in?

 

[BubbySoup]

They don't have to zoom in to show the difference between 2 API's, the API's themselves make a huge difference to developers, whether they choose to take advantage of the features are up to themself.

Can you give me some examples? I'd be interested to know as I am not a programmer. I haven't read any articles where developers have actually said it's more advantageous to code using DX10 other than to add the extra effects DX10 provides.

 

[jrodga2k5]

7 is basically an improved Vista as far as I'm aware....

Howveer why would anyone with Vista worry about DX11 and support? Windows Vista will support DX11 and that is said in the articles around the net. Windows had to be restructured completely to allow the DX10 API to actually work and DX11 is basically as simple as them saying we're going from DX8.1 to DX9.0 like they did with XP and you didnt have to change OS then did you?

 

[The_Abyss]

The problem with your comparison is that new hardware can show immediate gains from the moment it is powered up. With software it takes time for developers to take advantage of a new API. Coupled with the ever increasing development times of software titles, the public is really not seeing any benefit of one revision of an API before a new one is announced.

I mean, when websites have to zoom in on screenshots to show you the subtle differences between 2 API's, is our gaming experience actually being improved?

Improvements can be performance-related too - DX10.1 is very efficient as we already know.

However, there is another problem - this is an enthusiast forum. The public as you quote above don't know that DX11 is being announced. They don't really even know about DX10 or 10.1 or developers implementing it or not.

Hell, half of people buying new PCs probably don't even look at what OS they have on it until they get home.

Also, whilst new hardware can show immediate gains, don't forget that driver development can also take a long while to perfect it too.

 

[Mr Paul]

Err, what? Unless the directX version supported by the card supports tessellation, then it's a pointless feature right? So what are you talking about? Do you even know what context they're referring to tessellation in?

No its not a pointless feature, its was included with R600 and above because it WAS going to be part of DX10, but nVidia has M$ remove it as they didn't have one.

Now it's part of DX11, and as I said ATi will have a good head start of the tech as they are already into the second generation tessellator in RV770.

 

[rojones]

Vista is a disaster is it and here i have been using it for over a year with zero problems and actually finding my system more stable then it was under xp how stupid do i feel now finding out from someone that it is so bad i will uninstall it immediately .

It may be okay for some people. But the reality is it has been a disaster, why on earth do you think MS are doing everything they can it would appear to move on.

I moved to Vista temporarily and i must say, the worst move i made since moving from 98SE to ME ... perhaps not as bad but not far off. Lets hope Windows 7 is a big improvement.

 

[Mr Paul]

I like Vista with SP1. It's now my main OS.

 

[Darkwave]

Has anyone played any DirectX® 10 games?

I've played a few, and these are my thoughts...

Lord Of The Rings Online
DirectX 10 mode was still a beta feature when I still played this, but I have to say it was a success. Even though it did hamper performance quite significantly, it did add a lot of very nice eye candy in the sense that water looked natural when it met with land (instead of giant polygons) and trees cast real-time shadows on everything under them (including your character). These are just a couple of the new features.

Crysis
I never saw a difference between the DirectX 9 and DirectX 10 modes in this game, yet DirectX 10 adversely affected performance quite a bit for me. I was not impressed, considering Microsoft said that DirectX 10 would be faster in an equally rendered scene.

Devil May Cry 4
Again I saw no difference between the DirectX 9 and DirectX 10 modes, and again DirectX 10 adversely affected performance. Some people seem to have succeeded in making DirectX 10 mode run faster on their hardware but I didn't see any of this.

So overall I've had a negative experience with DirectX 10 as it currently stands, though even before it came out I was constantly telling people in this forum that DirectX 10 would not do anything revolutionary. That you shouldn't expect eye candy for a long time after it's released. I was constantly flamed for these sentiments, and now they're the norm around here, so I guess all I can say is "nyer nyer I told you so!"

I like Vista with SP1. It's now my main OS.

Likewise. I hated it at first, but then I grew to like it and even bought a legit copy.