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DX12 CPU Performance Leaked, Way Faster Than DX11 – Threading Model Resembles AMD’s Mantle
- Thread starter shankly1985
- Start date
Microsoft dropping DirectX was probably in reference to them changing the name, which with the new low level approach wasn't outside of the realm of possibility.
In my opinion anyone seriously thinking that Microsoft was going to drop DirectX is dreaming.
In my opinion anyone seriously thinking that Microsoft was going to drop DirectX is dreaming.
Microsoft dropping DirectX was probably in reference to them changing the name, which with the new low level approach wasn't outside of the realm of possibility.
In my opinion anyone seriously thinking that Microsoft was going to drop DirectX is dreaming.
Microsoft will never drop DirectX as it is an important selling point for Windows.
I think I will be seeing a thread like this when DX23 is launched and I am collecting my pension.
Caporegime
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Jesus christ.
Up to lets say 8 months ago Direct X was a high level graphics API mostly with code built on top of previous iterations though with several large changes(MS claim DX10 was ground up redone.... I'm not sure on the accuracy of that but the concept was the same).
There is now no longer a new high level version of DX coming, there is no new high level DX in the works, there is no next iteration of DX11. DX was stopped and no work has seemingly been done moving that into the future.
If someone had said "MS has cease development on their high level graphics API", they would have been 100% accurate. AT the time the statement was made, DX was synonymous with MS's high level graphics API.
DX 12 breaks this, using DX before like, March(whenever they announced DX12) people would only ever consider you talking about a high level graphics API.
MS have reused the name for a different product, but a different product it is. They could just as easily have launched Next3d leaving DX as their high level graphics API and having a new brand for the low level one.
When someone said DX was dead, it was 100% accurate. Using a new product using an old brand to proclaim someone was wrong is being intentional obtuse about the issue.
Up to lets say 8 months ago Direct X was a high level graphics API mostly with code built on top of previous iterations though with several large changes(MS claim DX10 was ground up redone.... I'm not sure on the accuracy of that but the concept was the same).
There is now no longer a new high level version of DX coming, there is no new high level DX in the works, there is no next iteration of DX11. DX was stopped and no work has seemingly been done moving that into the future.
If someone had said "MS has cease development on their high level graphics API", they would have been 100% accurate. AT the time the statement was made, DX was synonymous with MS's high level graphics API.
DX 12 breaks this, using DX before like, March(whenever they announced DX12) people would only ever consider you talking about a high level graphics API.
MS have reused the name for a different product, but a different product it is. They could just as easily have launched Next3d leaving DX as their high level graphics API and having a new brand for the low level one.
When someone said DX was dead, it was 100% accurate. Using a new product using an old brand to proclaim someone was wrong is being intentional obtuse about the issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX
I'd say DX12 will indeed by that definition still be DX , I dont see why DX has to be high level still to fit your personal definition of what DX is.
To me improvements in DX12 over DX 11 have to be good for us all
Is it all new ,does it share some of mantle or DX11 or even DX 10 doesnt really matter along as its better
Guns kill people, that doesn't make them cancer.
Being able to do the same thing as something else doesn't make something that thing, it just makes it perform like that thing.
I.E Nvidia had low level OpenGL optimisations in place before Mantle arrived, that doesn't make Mantle OpenGL. Besides DirectX 12 has been in development for a long time, maybe even longer than Mantle, it just wasn't announced to the public until recently.
It's all yap and speculation at this point.
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Certain articles and reports claim tat DirectX 12 has been in development much longer then everyone thinks and even before Mantle.
So unless some one official from Microsoft and AMD come out and give us exact states when develop started on either API know one will know for sure which one was actually first.
I personally feel that DirectX 12 has been in development for longer and AMD showing Mantle just forced Microsoft's hand to show DirectX 12 off sooner then they wanted to try and kill some of the buzz around it.
I feel that DirectX 12 was started around the time they started Xbone's API.
So unless some one official from Microsoft and AMD come out and give us exact states when develop started on either API know one will know for sure which one was actually first.
I personally feel that DirectX 12 has been in development for longer and AMD showing Mantle just forced Microsoft's hand to show DirectX 12 off sooner then they wanted to try and kill some of the buzz around it.
I feel that DirectX 12 was started around the time they started Xbone's API.
http://youtu.be/MSfdWoZUp58?t=11m26s
2012 talks about Mantle started, actual Mantle code writing started in early 2013.
If they release Mantle this year (assuming they stick to what they said) we are looking at a bit less than 2 years of Mantle development (of course Mantle 1.0 is not the end, there are already talks about 2.0 and beyond).
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Certain articles have placed DirectX 12 before then iirc.
So they really have become super lazy with DirectX. I know Mantle isn't finished, but the fact that AMD managed to bring out Mantle before MS got out a new version of DirectX is super disappointing. Especially considering that DirectX 12 doesn't offer anything really new, it's just 11 with low level hardware access and a few new feature sets that are shared with 11.3.
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Microsoft have a bomb load more to do then AMD, integrate Xbox One API...ensure backwards compatibility....Make sure it works on multiple architectures and vendors.... loads more work to do then AMD.
No, they don't. DirectX 12 will run on Xbox One, a console that has the same hardware as modern PCs, so they only need to make sure it works on the OS, which is similar to Windows anyway. There is no backwards compatibility, it will run the same hardware that Mantle will (no support for AMD GPUs before GCN).
And please, don't use the argument that it has to work on NVidia and Intel hardware, MS doesn't write drivers, it's not their job. They write the API, give it to the hardware guys (AMD, Intel, NVidia) who then write drivers to make sure the application can communicate with the hardware.
The only part where they actually have more work to do is the new feature set that will also come in Mantle next year in 2.0. Outside of that I don't see why they would need much more time than AMD which is smaller and maybe even less experienced?
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O.o
Mantle supports like five cards and is a graphics API lol. DirectX supports thousands of different hardware items and includes multiple graphics API's, network API, sound API's, etc. Of course it takes much more time/resources to make.
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They have to ensure it works on Xbone and converts and ports properly, and even though Nvidia, Intel and AMD write the driver they still have tweak and change code based on findings and recommendations, something that AMD has not had to do yet.
An personally I wouldn't bet on Mantle 2.0, I personally can see DirectX 12 killing it off due to superior adoption rates.
Afterall every game built on Xbox One will be DirectX 12 ready, that a lone is a massive advantage for DirectX, the same can't be said for Mantle.
Caporegime
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12 posts of Pro AMD.
Hmm
Hmm
Mantle 2.0 should be coming out around the time DirectX 12 will be released. It will simply be 1.0 + the new feature set coming in DirectX 12/11.3.
Just because they run on the same API doesn't change the fact that there is a lot of work that still has to be done for games to be ported to PC. Also, despite DirectX being the dominant API on the market for years, OpenGL is still around. I don't see any reason why Mantle can't coexist with DirectX 12 around. Mantle is an API, it doesn't require as much resources and man power as building a graphics architecture. Even with AMDs limited funds, they should be able to update Mantle and keep it around.
Also, keep in mind how long it took for MS to make a new version of DirectX. I can totally see Mantle sticking around just on the basis of having more frequent updates, even more so if Intel or NVidia adopt it (if ever).
Soldato
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OpenGL has the advantage of being used in professional software and being the defacto standard on Unix/Linux based OS's (including Android and anything Apple do), mantle doesn't
if it were only PC gaming, OpenGL would have been dead a decade ago (which for all intents and purposes in regards Windows gaming it has been)
if it were only PC gaming, OpenGL would have been dead a decade ago (which for all intents and purposes in regards Windows gaming it has been)
What if Mantle starts showing up in professional programs? Also, we don't know how developers will reacts to DirectX 12. Will they adopt it and drop Mantle? Will they support both or maybe stick to Mantle exclusively (very unlikely)?
In the end Mantles future very much depends on developers and to some degree AMD. We just have to wait and see. But even if Mantle "dies" we at least have DirectX 12, so that's good. I just hope that devs stick to 12 rather than 11.3.
Soldato
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The only games that have mantle so far are the ones that AMD have given millions of dollars to. Of the few games that have released usage stats, AMD mantle-capable GPU's make up less than 20% of the user base (even where AMD are giving away free copies of the game), it simply doesnt make any financial sense to support mantle when it isnt being bankrolled by AMD