E3 2015 - The year the SJW's won?

[LateX'Dog]

What's actually bad about games becoming more widely representative?

Because they already are represented and fiction. You know, a story wrote by someone, who shouldn't be constrained and intimidated by fad groups.

 

[LateX'Dog]

Err no, they just hired a human being that has you know, opinions, to do a job.

Then you clearly didn't read anything. That women is trying to alter the development process to spread equality.

The story is about Mega "MAN", not Mega non binary gender.

 

[LateX'Dog]

Cherry Picking?

Your suggesting that in the last 25 years, most games have had amazing narratives?

Here't the best selling games of all time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

Tetris - (mobile) - 100 million
Wii Sports - 82.69 million
Minecraft - 65 million
Grand Theft Auto V - 52 million
Super Mario Bros. (NES) - 40.24 million
Mario Kart Wii - 36.38 million
Tetris - (Game Boy/Game Boy colour) - 35 million
Wii Sports Resort - 32.80 million
New Super Mario Bros (DS) - 30.79 million
New Super Mario Bros. (Wii) - 29.32 million
Wii Play - 28.02 million
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas - 27.5 million
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 - 26.5 million
Call of Duty: Black Ops - 26.2 million
Grand Theft Auto IV - 25 million
Call of Duty: Black Ops II - 24.2 million
Kinect Adventures! - 24 million
Nintendogs - 23.96 million
Pokémon Red, Blue, and Green (Game Boy colour) - 23.64 million
Mario Kart DS - 23.59 million
Pokémon Gold and Silver (Game Boy/Game Boy colour) - 23 million
Wii Fit - 22.67 million
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - 22-29 million
Wii Fit Plus 2009 - 21.11 million
Super Mario World (Snes) 20.6 million


How many of those narrative classics started with the story?

Grand Theft Auto V 2013 PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, PlayStation 4, Xbox One, Windows 52 million

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas 2004 PlayStation 2, Microsoft Windows, Xbox, Mac OS X, Xbox 360 27.5 million

Grand Theft Auto IV 2008 PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, Microsoft Windows 25 million

Grand Theft Auto: Vice City 2002 Windows, Xbox, PlayStation 2 20 million

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 2011 Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 20 million

Grand Theft Auto III 2001 Windows, Xbox, PlayStation 2 17.33 million

Diablo III 2012 Microsoft Windows, OS X, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3 15 million


You could quite easily argue that Pokemon has good story, Minecraft is story that you make. Ultimately your highlighting the best sellers, which is extremely narrow minded and agenda ridden.

What about Mass Effect? Witcher? Dragon Age, Baulders Gate, Icewind Dale, Fallout, Half Life, Portal (Strong female lead!! OMG).

There is more games based from story then there is games made without story. Even the Call of Duty would have had a theme, a narrative they wanted to tell to help drive development.

 

[LateX'Dog]

Oh good god not EQUALITY....the monsters!

Its a spin off from mega man, about mega man, for mega man fans. They want Mega MAN. Nothing more, nothing less. They don't want equality in their game, they just want mega man.

 

[LateX'Dog]

If the only reason not to gender-swap megaman is the name, then that seems pretty weak. It's not like any of the megaman story elements wouldn't work if you swapped (i.e. gave the option to swap) the protagonist for a female (making appropriate gendered language changes, of course).

There's literally no downside to that.

The community didn't want Mega Women or Mega Transgender. They just wanted Mega Man. Why the **** can they not get what they paid for?

 

[LateX'Dog]

OP:

What do you lose by the gaming industry moving toward a more varied and representative position?

Why do you care so much?

Because it hinders story. If developers become scared to explore narrative unless they include a transgender 11th generation descendant of a Cherokee, then creativity is squashed.

Why can't we just let stories be stories, if you want a pro feminist game, go and make one. Just don't push your agenda's onto other writers because it doesn't fit your agenda.

 

[LateX'Dog]

What do they lose by the game giving an option for megaman to be a female robot?

What's the downside?

You add development time, which equally pushes the game back and increases cost.

They didn't want a female option, they didn't want anything but bloody mega man. Damn, when a world becomes scared to make a mega man remake for fear of not including a female, its a bloody joke.

 

[LateX'Dog]

I just want to make a game where you can roleplay as a rapist KKK member in the deep south of America in the good old days... Damn that loud crying minority!

Strawman, nice try pal.

 

[LateX'Dog]

I must have missed something then, did the Mega-man sequel not happen? Was the developer "forced" to change his game?

Comcept appointed a new community manager called Dina Abou Karam. Her job seems to be to listen to fan feedback and forward it to higher-ups at Comcept.

The trouble is that Dina being appointed raised a whole host of questions amongst the many, many backers of Mighty No. 9. Firstly, Dina presented a piece of fan art of a gender-flipped version of Beck -- the male protagonist of MN9 -- and stated:

"As someone who cares about gender representation in games, please make Call [the game's female character] a playable character, or even better, make Beck a female bot alltogether [sic]! It shouldn't and won't affect gameplay! I started on some Mighty No. 9 Fan Art myself as a way to promote this Kickstarter/express my wish:"

Other than that, Dina tweeted that she was "never a Mega Man player" but she supported MN9 because her friends and boyfriend were working on the game

Just read this page:

http://themalesofgames.blogspot.com/2013/12/mighty-no-9s-feminist-community-manager.html

 

[LateX'Dog]

But, to answer my question, has Mighty No. 9 been massively compromised in some way?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rOB0aw1DHsY/UrDjB6FwkcI/AAAAAAAAAlM/ix1qUgDlf8s/s1600/sukidaiocomment.PNG

Read that image. She's now a developer, so now the question will be, what effect has she had on the game? Thats yet to be seen.

 

[LateX'Dog]

Conclusive proof if ever I saw it

Would it be the end of the world if there was a playable female character? For a feminist you seem to be awfully bothered by the possibility of female characters being in games.

I don't, its the effect this gender pushing is having on development.

 

[LateX'Dog]

And the counterpoint to your argument is that maybe writers have always wanted to tell more female centric stories in games, but Publishers were reticent to pump money in to a game with a female protagonist?

Thats a great point, i'd also be interested in that side of the coin.

 

[LateX'Dog]

It creates things like this:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...-frequency-is-dead-wrong-about-the-witcher-3/

McIntosh’s tweets about the game, and about protagonist Geralt of Rivia, read like someone who has never played a Witcher game before, including The Witcher 3, or like someone all too eager to justify their own assumptions.

He describes Geralt as “emotionally deficient in the extreme. Never cries or laughs. Never expresses grief, fear, sadness or vulnerability.” Which is, you know, patently untrue. Not a matter of opinion, but utterly untrue to the point where I do question whether McIntosh has actually played these games, or is just watching the trailers. (Hey, plenty of critics wrote angry things about American Sniper without watching the film first.)

 

[LateX'Dog]

Last I heard people were free to air their opinions on whatever they please.

Still waiting for evidence that developers are cowering in fear of feminazi mobs and hastily scrubbing out male characters.

Correlation does not imply causation.

 

[LateX'Dog]

Do you know what those words mean?

Just because there is a lack of evidence to back up my claim, doesn't imply there is no problem.

 

[LateX'Dog]

It sort of does...

Oh ok, I'm sure a development company would come out and say "Yeah, sorry we delayed the game for xyz, a feminist wanted us to include more realistic female interaction"

It would be PR suicide.

 

[LateX'Dog]

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...eal-threat-free-speech-campus-trigger-unhappy

https://twitter.com/applecidermage/status/610635269218390017

http://blueplz.blogspot.com/2015/06/when-attention-trumps-integrity.html

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHgi2MJWgAALnbj.png:large

Just a couple of examples of how this situation is playing out.

The 2013 study on Sales, Demographic and Usage Data conducted by the Entertainment Software Association found that 45% of the United States gaming population are female.

So there is more then ample representation there.

The International Game Developers Association found in their Game Developer Satisfaction Survey that women make up just 22% of game developers. This is nearly double the percentage reported in its 2009 survey

Less then ample here, but is this because they don't want to be part of that industry? Or because its actually hard for them being a female?

This dynamic has been made obvious with the recent blunderings of Ubisoft at this year’s E3. In June, the studio announced that it’s upcoming installment in the Assassin’s Creed series, Assassin’s Creed: Unity, will feature a four-player co-op mode, a first for the series. However, that co-op mode will not include any female assassins. When pressed, Ubisoft creative director Alex Amancio stated, “it’s double the animations, it’s double the voices, all that stuff and double the visual assets… Especially because we have customizable assassins. It was really a lot of extra production work.”

So clearly it does cost developers.

Assassin’s Creed III: Liberation, featuring the first non-optional, playable, black, female character in a major video game.

So maybe they didn't include female assassins in Unity, because it wasn't part of the story they wanted to tell?

In a 2012 study, Electronic Entertainment Design and Research (EEDAR) took a survey of 669 and found that whilst only 24 (4%) of these games featured female protagonists at least 300 of these games allowed the player to choose a character who could be male or female.

So just under half of the games in that study you could play as a female

In a 2010 study done by the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) it was found that the most used consoles by females was the Wii at 80% followed by the XBox360 at 11% and Ps3 at 9%. If we look at the top selling games for the Wii console then we can clearly see that only ONE game out of the top 10 games features in the genres that were studied by the EEDAR and that was Super Smash Bros Brawl under action. Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not saying that girls don’t play action/shooter games or that guys only play these games, but as far as the data is concerned it shows that the majority of female gamers (at least in the US) aren’t going to play games that settle into the action and shooter genres; regardless of whether they have female protagonists or not.

Hmm so evidence suggests that women enjoy different types of genres, who'd have thought that. Maybe Call Of Duty just isn't a female game?

To start let’s look at some of the games made by female developers that have gone on to reach critical acclaim.

King’s Quest was developed by Roberta Williams, the co-founder of Sierra Entertainment. This game is widely considered to be a classic and integral part in the history of modern video games. This graphic adventure game allowed Sierra Entertainment to rise to fame before it was sold to CuC International in 1996 for around $1.5 billion.

M.U.L.E was developed by Danielle Bunten in 1983 and despite only selling 30,000 copies it was named number 5 on PC World’s “Ten Greatest PC Games Ever“. It was also placed 19th on 1up.com’s most important video games of all time.

N: Way of the Ninja was developed in 2005 by Mare Sheppard, despite being a simple freeware game it received many awards and was re-released as a portable game for the PSP and Nintendo DS.

Portal was worked on by Kim Swift who was the project lead and level designer at Valve. This game went on to become one of the most popular games on Steam as well as winning multiple awards.

The list goes on and on, hell, even a game I loathe with every fibre of my being called Journey managed to win multiple awards and was developed by a woman called Kellee Santiago who also worked on Flow and Flower. It boggles my mind that radical feminists love to claim that there are no important female game developers whilst this list exists;

I've played most of the games above and i love them. I couldn't give a **** if a monkey developed them games, but they are a perfect example of how ******** this feminist crap in gaming actually is.

 

[LateX'Dog]

Letting you play a female in 'at least 300' might only be related to the multiplayer portion of the game. I don't know many games that give you the choice in the single player portion, other than most RPG's.

Read the study.

 

[LateX'Dog]

According to data gathered by Electronic Entertainment Design and Research (EEDAR) in 2012, few video games have exclusively female heroes. This is in part because, according to EEDAR, "there's a sense in the industry that games with female heroes won't sell

So again this proves that developers are more then willing to make female menstruation games, they are just scared it wont sell. Nothing to do with them being sexist or sexist driven industry.

A 2013 study by Flurry looked at the different mobile gaming preferences between men and women. Women made up 60-80% of the solitaire, slots, social turn-based, match-three / bubble-shooter, management / simulation and quiz game markets. Men on the other hand, made up between 60-80% of the strategy, shooter, card battle, racing and action RPG markets.

A 2014 SuperData Research study found that men and women enjoy video games, but some genres tend to attract one gender over the other: Women compose 57.8 percent of the mobile market, 53.6 percent of the RPG market and 50.2 percent of the PC market (including social games). The study found that men make up 66 percent of MMO players, 66 percent of FPS players and 63 percent of digital console players.

So it seems here that the women who play video games, choose different genres to what men choose. So moaning that Call of Duty doesn't have a female character is irrelevant because well females barely play it.

So 53% of the RPG market are females and yet you can also select a female in RPGs. Its almost like they have the majority in the RPG market, so there shouldn't be any complaints there.

 

[LateX'Dog]

I would, but you linked to Wikipedia which doesn't cite the study you mention.

I think its the study it self, just broken down in Wikipedia.