E46 330ci vs M3

[Gaygle]

The M3 is a genuinely sporty decent car with power to back up its weight and luxury and keep it in the sporting section. BMW sports are not sporty enough to be fun and compromise on the SE, they are rubbish.

The difference between the two are night and day.

Do you have to bang this drum every time the word "BMW M-Sport" is mentioned? It's interesting you think this when every magazine article review has said that M-Sport BMW's are generally excellent cars?

What experience do you have with "M-Sport/Sport" BMW's?

 

[hurfdurf]

Do you have to bang this drum every time the word "BMW M-Sport" is mentioned? It's interesting you think this when every magazine article review has said that M-Sport BMW's are generally excellent cars?

What experience do you have with "M-Sport/Sport" BMW's?

I have driven a friends 330Ci and taken a BMW M3 out on a test drive, they are not in the same league. A lot of BMW sport owners on here make out they are and it is both disingenuous and silly. 70% of the car? maybe... 10% of the performance though, and when one is purchasing a car for performance, that is what matters. If it doesn't matter, why bother with the Sport model, just get the more comfortable SE, if it does, don't get the Sport because it is just a compromised SE, and not compromised enough to be any good, so you end up with an SE that isn't as comfy as an SE but not good enough to warrant being called a sport.

 

[MikeHiow]

but i think had i driven the same way in an M3, i would have span it out by now.

Possibly, but again, I really think this comes down to open-diff vs. LSD and not the power difference.

Don't get me wrong, I do not disagree with your comment on the M3 requiring more skill to drive, but when I say drive I mean drive it to it's limits, and this goes back to my original point. If your balls run out at a certain place, let's assume around the limits of a 330 (and let's be fair - most normal people's confidence runs out before the car's limits), but whether you were driving the 330 or the M3 - the M3 is going to be the easier car to drive.

This is kind of what appeals so much about FWD to me - you can royally take the biscuit with virtually no consequences. But given the comments in this thread, it's a wonder how I didn't die in the VX220 or the Z4M I drove recently.

 

[Gaygle]

Ok first thing is, your post makes little sense so i'll break it down to respond...

I have driven a friends 330Ci and taken a BMW M3 out on a test drive, they are not in the same league.

For someone so vocal and so frequently slagging off the 330ci Sport you don't seem to have had a lot of time in either an M3 or 330ci. You certainly haven't spent enough time in either to make your comments valid for me. A test drive in an M3 and having a go in your mates 330ci certainly doesn't hold enough weight for you to berate off the BMW "M-Sport" cars as much as you do.

The M3 and 330Ci aren't in the same league - they never claim to be. The 330ci is meant to be a decent cruiser as well as being able to handle itself through bends - which is does great. The M3 is meant to be awesome through the bends, fun to drive and also fine for cruising - which it does well too.

A lot of BMW sport owners on here make out they are and it is both disingenuous and silly.

I hear rumours of people saying this - but i have never heard it myself. I think its become a bit of an internet rumour that "a lot" of BMW sport owners make out they own M3's.

70% of the car? maybe... 10% of the performance though

No, a 330ci is around 70% of the performance of an M3. I honestly don't understand how you can have such a strong opinion on the matter of comparing BMW Sport models with M3's when you've only driven one on a test drive (and we all know how much a test drive tells you about a car) and the other driving your mates 330ci.

and when one is purchasing a car for performance, that is what matters. If it doesn't matter, why bother with the Sport model, just get the more comfortable SE, if it does, don't get the Sport because it is just a compromised SE, and not compromised enough to be any good, so you end up with an SE that isn't as comfy as an SE but not good enough to warrant being called a sport.

What a ridiculous sentiment. What happens if i want an M3 but can't afford one? What happens if i don't want an M3, but want something with a bit of power, looks sporty and is decent through the twisties. You seem to think that there should only be two types car - a high performance car, or a slow car that is soft and flobby. What happens i want a car somewhere in between this?

From how frequently you slagged off the BMW sport models, i assumed you had some decent experience in one - but obviously not.

 

[MikeHiow]

No, a 330ci is around 70% of the performance of an M3.

I don't believe it.

 

[hurfdurf]

I don't believe it.

Because its not true, no matter how much BMW sport owners try to make out.

What a ridiculous sentiment. What happens if i want an M3 but can't afford one? What happens if i don't want an M3, but want something with a bit of power, looks sporty and is decent through the twisties.

You should purchase an RX8

You seem to think that there should only be two types car - a high performance car, or a slow car that is soft and flobby. What happens i want a car somewhere in between this?

That's fine to want an in-between, however, a BMW sport is not in-between, its not sporty enough, it is not the middle ground owners make out that it is. It does not offer the fun of an M3 but the running costs of a SE, it offers the running costs of an SE, with a small few tweaks that don't bring it close enough to be any where near M3 territory.

 

[Gaygle]

I don't believe it.

What is it about my sentence that you don't believe? A 330ci has the following of the M3's (330i/M3):

BHP per tonne (155/214) = 71%
BHP (231/343) = 67%
0-62mph (6.3/4.8)= 76%
0-100mph (16.6/11.0) = 66%
Lap time around Hockenheim Short (1:23/1:16) - 91%

 

[Gaygle]

That's fine to want an in-between, however, a BMW sport is not in-between, its not sporty enough, it is not the middle ground owners make out that it is. It does not offer the fun of an M3 but the running costs of a SE, it offers the running costs of an SE, with a small few tweaks that don't bring it close enough to be any where near M3 territory.

And you know this from your whole 20 mins of driving both? I'm sorry, but you just have the experience with both to make you comments valid. If people who had owned a good example of both for a decent length of time said this - i would find it more believable.

That fact is - the 330ci is not 10% of the car the M3 is. Just no. Performance wise, it is around 70% of the car.

 

[MikeHiow]

Your percentage on lap time means nothing - that gap is huge on such a short run! Plus, I'm sure I don't need to school you on the relevance of FastestLaps.com.

It may have 70% of the power but that is where this 70% ends - it has nothing else of what makes the M3 an M3.

Oh, and front engined, RWD car without LSD FTL.

By your reasoning my Clio is 78% the performance car that the M3 is? Oh, and my ST was 93%!

 

[hurfdurf]

Hang on, I am in agreement with MikeHiow... that is not a good sign for me.

Ah well, can't take back my own experience.

Also your figures are massively flawed as an example as to why its 70% of the performance, Mikehiow of all people schooled you why, how embarrassing for you.

 

[Gaygle]

Your percentage on lap time means nothing - that gap is huge on such a short run!

But that's why i used a percentage to represent the difference? There would be a larger difference on a longer track but due to it being a longer track the percentage difference would obviously stay around the same? That's what percentages are...

Plus, I'm sure I don't need to school you on the relevance of FastestLaps.com.

Of course, but it's all i could find to compare a lap time. Why? What's wrong with the lap time? Were you expecting the M3 to be even quicker or something? You've already said that the "gap is huge on such a short track" so i don't really understand?

It may have 70% of the power but that is where this 70% ends

No it isn't - i've already shown all sorts of different performance stats which compare the two, including power/power to weight/lap times/0-60/0-100 - all of which show the difference is around 70%.

it has nothing else of what makes the M3 an M3.

But - that's why it's not an M3 - it's a 330ci.

Oh, and front engined, RWD car without LSD FTL.

Why?

By your reasoning my Clio is 78% the performance car that the M3 is? Oh, and my ST was 93%!

Maybe? How have you worked out these percentages? I based my estimate for the 330ci on a whole host of different "performance stats". That's how performance is measured - with minutes, seconds and BHP's. And I don't know how you can argue with my numbers?

I suspect you're confusing the "feeling" of driving an M3, with the "performance" of an M3. Anyway, didn't you once have a race with an M3 that barely got away from you?

 

[Gaygle]

Also your figures are massively flawed as an example as to why its 70% of the performance, Mikehiow of all people schooled you why, how embarrassing for you.

Please demonstrate how.

You're entire argument regarding BMW Sports vs M3's is flawed due to you having next to no experience in either, and there is no way for you to get away from that.

We're talking about performance here. I have presented a multitude of performance stats that seem to agree with me. You have presented wild opinions, with no experience or basis and tried to pass them off as fact. And you only have Mikehiow to agree with you - how embarrassing for you.

 

[Django x2]

Jeez, hurd and mike at it again:

Oh, and front engined, RWD car without LSD FTL.

This alone has to be statement of the year, and there's still 3 months left!

 

[mrk]

Just what the hell is going on here.

All I can see is that 2 particular people are talking a bit of guff and having a love in at the same time?

 

[hurfdurf]

Please demonstrate how.

You're entire argument regarding BMW Sports vs M3's is flawed due to you having next to no experience in either, and there is no way for you to get away from that.

We're talking about performance here. I have presented a multitude of performance stats that seem to agree with me. You have presented wild opinions, with no experience or basis and tried to pass them off as fact. And you only have Mikehiow to agree with you - how embarrassing for you.

Because I could claim a 1.2 corsa is 30% of an M3, when in reality its a completely different kettle of fish, much like the 330 "sport" is to an M3

 

[MikeHiow]

But that's why i used a percentage to represent the difference? There would be a larger difference on a longer track but due to it being a longer track the percentage difference would obviously stay around the same? That's what percentages are...

But in the context where you are claiming that the 330 is "70% the performance car" that the M3 is, a 90% figure is misleading.

No it isn't - i've already shown all sorts of different performance stats which compare the two, including power/power to weight/lap times/0-60/0-100 - all of which show the difference is around 70%.

The laptime does nothing to indicate that the car is 70%. If the weight is similar and the power is 70%, the rest of the figures you've provided are going to follow suit. All these figures show is what the 330 does in a straight line....

Maybe? How have you worked out these percentages? I based my estimate for the 330ci on a whole host of different "performance stats". That's how performance is measured - with minutes, seconds and BHP's. And I don't know how you can argue with my numbers?

As above, you haven't used a whole host of performance stats - they are all based around power to weight, which is where my percentage comes from.

I suspect you're confusing the "feeling" of driving an M3, with the "performance" of an M3.

No, you're confusing straight line acceleration with performance.

Jeez, hurd and mike at it again:



This alone has to be statement of the year, and there's still 3 months left!

Sigh. Find me some examples of widely recognised "great drivers cars" that are front engined and RWD without an LSD. There is a reason for that

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

I don't think raw stats are that good at describing a driving experience, also '30%' is quite a bit...

The things an M3 has over a 330 are Handling, Noise, looks, Steering feel etc... It's not just about that 30% extra in stats

 

[Blackhawk47]

Just what the hell is going on here.

All I can see is that 2 particular people are talking a bit of guff and having a love in at the same time?

That's funny, I see a threesome...

 

[Saytan]

in ordinary driving, the M3 isnt really any better than the 330. obviously when you're having a blast it's a much better car, but how often are you genuinely having such a blast that the pretty much 100% higher servicing costs are really worth it

if i only did personal miles, i'd be in an M3...

 

[merlin]

I'm not going to get into the whole percentages talk but imo comparing the two cars on the whole - looking at them as whole packages - there isn't a massive difference between them.

However - if you then zoom in to focus purely on the performance ability of each and they're night and day.