EBD ban.

dannyjo22

dannyjo22

dannyjo22

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So how does this ban sit with you?

Myself I find it a very curious change in regulations mid way through the season. Jame Allen write about the Red Bull qualifying advantage due to EBD around july last year IIRC, yet it's taken almost 12 months to decide this is against the regulations.

Why now?

The cynic in me says they have left it long enough for Red Bull to have enough wins on the board so as not to upset them too much but they are hoping that it will atleast make the remaining races tighter without hurting them so much they lose the title.

Why not just say it's banned and refine your car, they pretty much tipped everyone off so they could start working on changes early.

They didn't give Honda such grace when they changed how the cars where checked for fuel.

I personally don't like EBD but they had known about it long enough to have banned it prior to this season. If so they should have banned it before the season started or instantly. It seem very unfair for Red Bull and co and if they have not done anything prior to them looking like they would walk the title they should have left it until the season was ended.

I've said this before on here regards Red Bull, they are better off hiding pace and just winning even if you have a car 2 seconds faster than the field. Otherwise the Fia would just start banning things. The same for anyone when they show dominance, like the Macca 3rd pedal. Yeah it's fine, oh look you have lapped the field, ban!

Either something is illegal and you ban it straight away or as this seems to be a re-interpretation of the rule it should wait until the season end imo.
 
I thought it wasn't getting banned anymore?

FFS, I wish they'd make their mind up, every time I hear about it, the decision is different to the last time I heard.
 
Kenai said:
I thought it wasn't getting banned anymore?
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http://www.pitpass.com/43905-FIA-confirms-blown-diffuser-ban

Yeah it's a strange one how long it's taking them to decide. So instead of changing the regulation for 2012 they are effectively saying a car that was against the rules or spirit of the rules has won the title for the last two years.

Surely it's less laughable to let it slide this year and rewrite and ban for next year.
 
Fia Change rules. When they feel like it, so it's not odd.

But there is nothing about it which breaks any current rules.
And anyone who things RBR will suffer massively from this, needs to wake up. RBR has about a thousand tricks under their belt and all but one team is running EBD, it's not going to change much at all.
 
No to sure, seems to me they run the full engine map in qualifying and they are well ahead, come race they can't do that as it uses too much fuel and they are pretty much beatable. The difference in their qualifying pace to race suggests this engine mapping will hurt them pretty badly. But then it will hurt others as well....
 
Hang on, that article suggests they are banning blown diffusers completely, not just the engine maps for off throttle gas flow? This is news to me.

And they have ammended the 2012 regulations, they are just bringing this ban forward into this year. I expect they are confident the teams who have it will have the money and skills to remove it.
 
AUTOSPORT understands that the FIA wrote to F1 teams on Saturday morning in Montreal informing them that it was committed to not allowing them to continue off-throttle use of blown diffusers.

The FIA originally intended to ban the systems from the Spanish Grand Prix, but that decision was delayed after the governing body was made aware of 'unintended consequences' of such a move.

However, ahead of a meeting of the F1 think tank Technical Working Group in London on Thursday, the FIA says that it is set on its course of action.

As well as outlining its decision to make off-throttle blown diffusers illegal from the British Grand Prix, it suggests a change to the technical regulations for 2012 that will outlaw teams from using blown diffusers at all.

Williams technical director Sam Michael confirmed that the teams had been informed of the plan - and that Thursday's meeting would be about how best to implement the FIA's decision.

"The FIA has made its position very clear," said Michael. "They want to talk about the fine details on Thursday, but what Charlie [Whiting, FIA technical delegate] is saying is that hot blowing is banned and cold blowing is banned from the Silverstone GP onwards.

"For 2012, the exhaust system must exit behind the rear wheel centre line, actually 330mm behind, so right out the back of the diffuser.

"That means there cannot be any exhaust influence on the diffuser. That is what the FIA has clarified and then Thursday is about implementation."
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Red Bull questions blown diffusers rules change

Red Bull Racing says it is ready to question the implementation of the forthcoming change to the blown diffuser regulations when Formula 1 teams get together this week to discuss it.

With the FIA having made it clear in Montreal last weekend that it is pushing ahead with plans to ban teams from off-throttle use of blown diffusers from the British Grand Prix, many outfits are currently working on necessary changes to their car designs and engine mapping.

However, with Red Bull Racing being singled out as the team that stands the most to lose - because it is believed to have perfected the implementation of the concept the best – the outfit is obviously eager to ensure it does not lose any competitive advantage it has.

And ahead of this week's meeting of F1 think-tank the Technical Working Group, which is scheduled for London on Thursday, Red Bull Racing says it wants to clear up certain aspects of the FIA's decision to view off-throttle use as illegal.

When asked by AUTOSPORT about if the team had concerns about the impact of the ban from Silverstone, Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner said: "There are two issues. One is the impact of it, which I doubt will probably affect us any more or any less than any other team.

"But the other one is the mechanism and the understanding behind the technical directive. That is what will undoubtedly be debated in the TWG next week, which is probably the right forum to discuss it.

"There are certain questions that we want to ask about the technical directive that we need clarification on."

Full article:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92341
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Drukk said:
Whats the reason for banning it anyway? Whats the problem with having it?
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'Officially' I expect its on safety grounds around increased corner speeds.

'Unofficially', I expect the FIA are trying to stop a few wealthy teams from running away with an advantage the smaller teams cannot develop.
 
The FIA do as they please, no change there.

RB are obviously not the favourite team anymore - the FIA have realised that the team is exploiting too many loopholes in the rule book and that continuing like this will lead many people to switch off.

Of course, the FIA have left it this long because Red Bull essentially has two teams. It wasn't long ago that this investment was giving little in return. The FIA cannot afford to lose teams these days (with the possible exception of HRT and Virgin).
 
Ah, so this is some anti Red Bull conspiracy?

Ignoring the fact that a load of other top teams use the off throttle map, and also that Red Bulls second team aren't using it, so would potentially benefit from a ban?
 
In the rules you are not alloud to change the engines cpu, but clearly as slam62 has told us in detail that is against the rules and should had been banned before the start of the season, how ever becuase they ran the system in pre-season testing the FIA said it was good to go and they may use it. In my view I personaly think its a very clever device but find it hard to believe that the cpu device is supplied by Mclaren lol.
 
Charlie Whiting says
It's been used to influence the aerodynamic characteristics of the car. We think, arguably, this infringes article 3.15 of the technical regulations
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And it's obvious that something increasing airflow that is largely under computer control really is more then questionable..

However, why now? Obviously another example of FIA inconsistency.. but I think we have got used to this by now..
 
Nice little piece on Allens website. Seems sort of contradictory. One minute they are saying they think hot blowing is worth 0.5-1sec per lap the next he says it's the DRS wing on the red bull.

Personally I hope the RB still has them beat when they ban EBD. After all Mercedes and Ferrari are doing it as well, so to think they will gain half a second is a bit hopefull I reckon....


Cold blowing – When the driver lifts off the throttle pedal the engine throttles go to 100% and it cuts all the fuel to the spark, so there is no drive from the engine but all the air is flowing through the engine to give about 75% of the exhaust pressure you get on the power. Everyone has been doing this for the last 12 months.

Hot blowing – For the last two or three months this practice has come in. In hot blowing they start to inject some fuel and put a spark into the engine to increase the energy into the gas. So they end up with more downforce. To do that they have to retard the ignition and kill the torque, because if you don’t then the engine is going to create torque and the engine is going to keep going when the driver lifts off the throttle.

The performance gain is around half a second to one second per lap. But this drives fuel consumption up by around 15% and is very hard on engines, so it means costly reliability programmes. This is not the way the FIA wants the sport to go.

The question everyone wants to know is, will this slow the Red Bulls down relative to the opposition?

Renault, Red Bull’s engine supplier, has been working on this technology for longer than the others, but Ferrari and Mercedes are very active in this area too. The majority of Red Bull’s advantage is the power of its DRS wing, which can be used in fast corners and gives it a couple of tenths of a second in qualifying over McLaren in particular and also Ferrari. In the race this advantage goes because the DRS can only be used on a straight and when following another car. Hence why the races are much closer than qualifying.
 
dannyjo22 said:
. One minute they are saying they think hot blowing is worth 0.5-1sec per lap the next he says it's the DRS wing on the red bull.

].
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they've been saying both since the start and the flexible wing and probably another dozen things on the RBR.

As I said before I think they will have to lower their rear wing downforce, which means they will be slower in qualifying comparatively to the others, but I think they will stay the same if not increase speed in the race comparatively. But we will have to see.
 
I personally think, removal of the EBD on the Redbull will be their demise. If you design something, it's always easier to stay ahead of the rest of the field in development. Once that's taken away from you, it all comes back down to good old bodywork aero and engine maps.
 
Lucero said:
I personally think, removal of the EBD on the Redbull will be their demise. If you design something, it's always easier to stay ahead of the rest of the field in development. Once that's taken away from you, it all comes back down to good old bodywork aero and engine maps.
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RBR isn't the only team using it, they all are. It's also not RBR only trick. Flexible wing for example.
As well as a larger rear wing, which they can negate with DRS in qauli, when they have EBD, then in the race when they have reduced EBD and no DRS they have more downforce and slower straightline, compromising their pace IMO. Get rid of EBD and they will resort to a more normal. Rear wing, closing them down in qauli, but maybe be faster in race.
 
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