Ecoboost / Ecoflex engines

[ultralaser]

Hey all,

Happened to have a Astra with a 1 litre ecoflex as a rental this week and was super impressed with it (the engine as opposed to the car), I also see that other manufactures seems to have small turbo charged units (the obvious others being the Ford 125 PS 1 litre turbo petrol and a similar one by the VAG group fitted to the Leon and Ateca. These seem to be relatively new, online I read a lot of speculation that adding a pokey turbo to such a small petrol engine would likely effect longevity, so just wondering what you guys think of these engines - and how they've managed to get so much power from such small engines and why we haven't seen these before?

 

[Hyburnate]

They're growing in desirability, they're cheap to run and tax. Ford's EcoBoost engine so far seems to have proved to be reliable, I haven't heard of anyone with issues unless they were pushing it stupidly far. I know a lot of people have had the 1L Fiestas mapped very far above stock.

 

[arjgrundy]

I owned a Ford Focus ST which was fitted with the 2.0litre Eco Boost engine and performance wise, I was over the moon.

 

[MissChief]

No complaints about my 1.6 Ecoboost 182 Focus. Frugal (last OBC figure was very nearly 40MPG but I rarely drive in a town or city or heavy traffic) and easy enough to press on or get a swift overtake in. An easy 5MPG better than my 1.8T Leon Cupra I used to have despite a similar power output.

 

[Dav4]

I am not convinced with all these new tiny engines and Turbo's. Yes it's impressive that they can now get more bhp out of a 1.0 ecoboost than an old 1.6 engine but to me buying a cheap runaround in a few years time like a Fiesta i don't want the added potential bills of things like Turbo's etc.
There has been a good few 1.0 ecoboost Focus's having failed engines before 50k and a very high number of new Fiesta's blowing Turbo's at very low mileage. Problems like this were hardly heard of with the old 1.6 Zetec or the 1.25 in the older gen Focus and Fiesta.
Imo once these cars get to 5 plus years old on the used market given the lack of mechanical sympathy that owners give there lease cars now there is going to be a lot of potential bills that shouldn't really happen on cheap runabouts

 

[sovietspybob]

The Japanese were doing the tiny turbo'd engine 30 years ago so it's a fairly tried and tested formula. A 1.0 in a fiesta pumping out 100-125bhp is no worse than a 2.0 in an Honda S2000 or Gold GTI ED30 pushing out 230-240bhp.

Admittedly they were/are at the high end of the performance spectrum but as long as they're maintained properly i don't see there being any huge issues.

As for having the added complexity in cars which are treated as disposable goods there may well be an argument there..

 

[Dav4]

Fair point about it being done in the past but owners of such cars tended to be more enthusiast owned and well maintained compared to your average Fiesta, Polo, Corsa owner "mainly women" who will red line it from cold and switch the engine off instantly even after a hard journey when it's boiling hot and without laying off the boost before switching off which probably explains the new Fiesta's high Turbo failure rate. A lot are going to get dodgy Dave remaps put on them aswell by young boy racers which is only going to shorten the life of things even more.

 

[ultralaser]

Interesting replies. Especially on the previous iterations of this approach but in more enthusiast cars. I almost expected that with the more mainstream models like fords ecoboost they'd be designed to take into account being treated a little more harshly? I mean the two issues you mention seem to be things you could have the ECU detect and control / stop. also I guess I thought I'd have heard in the mainstream press if these little turbo engines where falling to pieces all the time?

 

[sovietspybob]

Good point, my 2002 yaris diesel has a sticker just inside the door saying to avoid harsh acceleration until it's up to temperature and also for 2 miles of gentle driving before turning the engine off or leave it to idle for 30 seconds. I'd guess that these new engines will probably run the water pump for a specified time after the engine is turned off though to keep coolant flowing through the turbo to avoid hot oil gunking up the bearings but it can't be 'good' for such items.

 

[Armageus]

I can't fault my 1.0 Ecoboost 125 Focus - was so impressed with it when I test drove it, didn't bother test driving a 1.6 Focus.

There has been a good few 1.0 ecoboost Focus's having failed engines before 50k and a very high number of new Fiesta's blowing Turbo's at very low mileage. Problems like this were hardly heard of with the old 1.6 Zetec or the 1.25 in the older gen Focus and Fiesta.

Both the old 1.6 and 1.25 have been around since around 1998 and 1995 respectively - the Ecoboosts are still relatively new. Going back to when the 1.25 and 1.6 were introduced, I imagine there were nearly as many issues, just owners back then didn't immediately jump on the internet to share their experiences in the same way we do now.

compared to your average Fiesta, Polo, Corsa owner "mainly women" who will red line it from cold and switch the engine off instantly even after a hard journey when it's boiling hot and without laying off the boost before switching off which probably explains the new Fiesta's high Turbo failure rate

Maybe the redlining is more relevant to your boy racer crowd - never know any women to "red line it from cold", or even red line it for that matter. A lot of the failures with the Fiesta Ecoboost have been related to a coolant hose, which has been redesigned and replaced as far as I know.

Can't 100% confirm, but believe the 1.0 Ecoboost also features an electric coolant pump to circulate coolant for up the 5 minutes after being turned off.

 

[Kenai]

Can't 100% confirm, but believe the 1.0 Ecoboost also features an electric coolant pump to circulate coolant for up the 5 minutes after being turned off.

Manufacturers have been doing this for well over a decade, i'd be amazed if there were a significant number of cars on the market that don't have this facility to 'warm down' a turbo engine.

 

[Gaygle]

Pretty sure it's oil and water cooled on the ecoboost engines.

Besides, who ever does a balls out run then handbrake turns into their driveway and turns the engine off immediately? What normally happens is you have you fun, then you go through the 30mph limit, then you pull onto your driveway, go forwards and backwards a bit, look at your phone then turn the engine off. In real terms you've had at least 2 minutes of cool down time. Not to mention fully synthetic oils resist coking much better than old oils.

People who sit on their drive cooling the car down with a modern low boost turbo charged car are wasting their time tbh.

 

[TheVoice]

I have a a SEAT Leon with the 1.4 TSI ACT, it's a great engine, and very economical even when pushed too. Can even get some nice audible turbo whine out of it if you're enthusiastic enough.

Can't say I've ever worried about letting the turbo cool, I figure the car would either tell me that needs doing or do it itself if required.

 

[atpbx]

I've had an ecoboost fiesta on hire a couple of times, they are absolutely fantastic.

If I was buying a shopping trolley for myself for some reason, they would be number 1 on the list.

 

[lordrobs]

I am not convinced with all these new tiny engines and Turbo's. Yes it's impressive that they can now get more bhp out of a 1.0 ecoboost than an old 1.6 engine but to me buying a cheap runaround in a few years time like a Fiesta i don't want the added potential bills of things like Turbo's etc.

Then don't get one, there are still plenty of options out there without turbo's. You just have to live with the fact that they are going to be 30% or so down on power compared to the turbo equivalents.

Japanese Kei cars have been FI since the early 90's with a capped engine size of 660cc. They were limited to 63bhp but bhp/L wise that isn't far off the current Ecoboost/TSI/Whatever units that are finding popularity.

I'm not sure mechanical sympathy is even a thing for the vast majority of drivers. The fact that many entry level cars don't even bother with a temperature gauge I think is testament to this. Unless you are rattling off the limiter from stone cold do you even need to give it a second thought on a modern car?

When I next need to buy a car a downsized FI petrol unit will be high on the wishlist.

 

[tom_nieto]

The Japanese were doing the tiny turbo'd engine 30 years ago so it's a fairly tried and tested formula. A 1.0 in a fiesta pumping out 100-125bhp is no worse than a 2.0 in an Honda S2000 or Gold GTI ED30 pushing out 230...

Honda has never had a turbo failure in a S2000, such reliable, many powers.

 

[tom_nieto]

Fiat's twinair has proven reliable. Very happy with our 4 year old 500. Still rev happy and full of character nearly 70k later.

 

[Nasher]

My Fiesta ST was bullet proof in the 3 years I had it. But as with any turbo car, the risk of the turbo blowing is always there. They generally don't last as long as the engine. I went back to a n/a engined car after, because I prefer the feel of them and want to keep it long term (simpler, less to go wrong in years to come. Turbos cost £1000s).

BTW the s2000 never had a turbo

 

[Joe T]

I agree, the 1.0T in the Astra is pretty good considering it's power and economy.

 

[tom_nieto]

BTW the s2000 never had a turbo

Not from the factory anyway!