Soldato
Does this have to turn into a 'does god exist' debate?
EDL March Against New Mosque That Turned Out To Be A KFC Cost Police £500,000
- Thread starter Efour
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Faith isn't incompatible with reason, in fact belief should be measured and balanced with a degree of both, this is true in all things not only religion.
History doesn't tell you that, that is simply your interpretation given a limited knowledge of history. Given that Islam has been around for over 1500 years and during the majority of that time the Middle East been one of the more stable and civilised regions, what history tells us is that the impact of colonialism, imperial expansion, dismantling societies and the imposition of governments and political impropriety has created a fractured and largely dysfunctional region since the collapse and dismantlement of the Ottoman Empire.
Shame they don't seem to agree with you.
Soldato
I think you really need to check your history there.
Which is the period I'm referring too, it's partly because islam is incompatible with everyone else that they get dumped on.
They can't argue about being dead in 20 years.
His point is correct I think, I found the same info from a history research paper.
Basically you can't make a curious scientific society out of a backward repressive one. Africa makes more progress than some of these countries.
Soldato
God yes!
You've got it completely the wrong way around. The propagation of Islam was the main reason for the Middle East's golden age. In fact, it's widely called 'The Islamic Golden Age'. The building of the Islamic empire brought a diverse group of thinkers together under one language. That's why the Middle East raced ahead of Europe.
Pathfinders by Prof. Jim Al-Khalili is worth a read if you'd like to find out more.
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Soldato
What I like best about the EDL is that there name sounds like a crappy WOW clan.
That's an appeal to expertise if I have ever seen one.
It wouldn't be GD if we didn't recover the same ground ad infinitum.
Soldato
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Raced ahead in what sense?
In many respects, they raced backwards as they blindly embraced Latin and Greek thinking, which we know to have been flawed in many regards. Medicine is a good example.
Soldato
I'm not arrogant enough to presume I'm an expert, but theology is a hobby of mine per say and I couldn't help throwing in the fact that this is a subject I spend a lot of time with. There's nothing wrong with promulgating epistemic 'credentials' in my opinion.
Raced ahead in the sense that their knowledge of science, mathematics and medicine was way ahead of Europe at the time.
They certainly did not follow Latin and Greek thinking blindly. People like Alhzen were using modern scientific methodology hundreds of years before the likes of Newton.
It's no coincidence that most of the words that we draw from Arabic, such as algebra and chemistry, are scientific words.
Soldato
You and your rational thoughts are going to get you in trouble round here
This thread was never going to end well with it's title but it sure was painful to read.
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But we do have an expert (doctorate attaining) and a scientist (doctorate attained) who both are saying something very different to the hobbyists like yourself though. Neither of whom are making appeals to expertise.
Soldato
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I am not saying there was no Arabic innovation, what I am saying is that the level of innovation is overstated. Greek, Latin and Hindu works provided not only the cornerstone of the 'Golden Age', but the walls and roof too.
I am also saying that it's precisely because the Muslims embraced Greek and Latin knowledge so fully, that actually they didn't really progress that much in many respects. Medicine is one example, but this is true of most of the physical sciences.
And you're right, it's not coincidence. It's because the Muslims translated many ancient Greek and Latin works into Arabic. Most of the original works were lost, so when the knowledge reentered Europe, it came primarily from Arabic sources.
Soldato
Well having a doctorate doesn't mean you're right. Academia is full of competing opinions. That's why it's so interesting. Also I never made an appeal to expertise so stop implying that I did. All I said was I study the subject, and in a following post I even conceded I wasn't an expert. So please stop arguing dishonestly and making things up.