Elite IV

[VeNT]

The *only* similarities between EVE and Elite are they are about space. That's it.

trading?
combat?
spaceships?
bugs?
painful learning curve?

 

[SteveOBHave]

trading?

Broken and pointless.

combat?

A parody of it - click and pray doesn't count as combat.

spaceships?

Well it is in space so there is no arguing that.

bugs?
painful learning curve?

Much like many other games out there.

Regardless of what EVE wants to be it just falls so far short of being 'the modern day Elite' that it's wrong to suggest that it's the spiritual replacement. It's pretty much just WOW in space and it lacks the depth and lore to really be engaging for a single player.

Elite had a way of hooking you in as a solo player for months and even years, EVE can't and never will claim that. If in EVE jumping into a system made me interested in it population, it's technologies and what was going on on it's moons and planets and land on them I might have a differing opinion. In my opinion it would need a MASSIVE overhaul of the game engine and the intention of the EVE universe and that is never going to happen.

 

[m4cc45]

Eve is more a visual database. Everything is all about number crunching.

Elite was freeer. You can go anywhere. The only thing that was missing in Elite was other vehicles (such as Moon Buggies) and the ability to wander around.

I'd personally love a game with Elites freedom, trading, missions but with Freelancers combat.



M.

 

[SteveOBHave]

Eve is more a visual database. Everything is all about number crunching.

Elite was freeer. You can go anywhere. The only thing that was missing in Elite was other vehicles (such as Moon Buggies) and the ability to wander around.

I'd personally love a game with Elites freedom, trading, missions but with Freelancers combat.



M.

Aye - Elite crossed with elements from Mass Effect would be GOLD!

 

[veggiemanuk]

Take away the button pushing in eve and replace it with Joystic controll and youd lose 90% of the player base, all those active alliance players would no longer be so leet

 

[Pottsey]

SteveOBHave I agree Eve is not a modern day Elite and Eve is far behind Elite in many areas but Eve combat is not just “A parody of it - click and pray doesn't count as combat.” Eve combat is complicated and requires tactics to win. It’s not just about who has the bigger numbers or click and wait and see who wins. If anything Eve combat is far more complicated and requires more thinking then Elites combat.



SteveOBHave said “it's technologies and what was going on on it's moons and planets and land on them I might have a differing opinion. In my opinion it would need a MASSIVE overhaul of the game engine and the intention of the EVE universe and that is never going to happen.”
MASSIVE overhaul? Its already been shown in the current engine.
Not going happen? It’s half due in the next expansion this year. The walking out of ships is due this winter. Planet landing and moon flying and flying inside giant asteroids with a joystick have been demoed but no idea when that’s due.

It’s not an engine problem they already showed it working.

 

[Glaucus]

eve beat them to it im afraid

How has eve beat them. eve is a silly click button game. No fps and no fun.

 

[modo77]

If in EVE jumping into a system made me interested in it population, it's technologies and what was going on on it's moons and planets and land on them I might have a differing opinion. In my opinion it would need a MASSIVE overhaul of the game engine and the intention of the EVE universe and that is never going to happen.

Yes it is going to happen

 

[naknakkus]

My ideal Elite IV:

Take the best of what Frontier had to offer: sense of freedom in the biggest sandbox around, awesome ship physics, classical soundtrack.

Update the interface: keep the ship controls the same, but have a slick operating system style interface for all of your communications/interactions with other ships/bases etc. So it would be like using the ship's computer with draggable windows, voice commands, applications (email, instant messaging etc) integrated into the game interface.

If Elite IV manages to do these two things with any success, then I'll be happy, but here are some more ambitious things that I'd love to see:

On-planet travel and gameplay: Pilotable land vehicles as someone else said, as well as 3rd person control of an avatar in the space stations/cities that could be used for missions and so on. This would be an extremely tricky component to implement, since it'd be difficult to strike a balance between making this section of the game too simple or too detailed. It would add a lot to the immersion of the player if you could use your ill gotten space games to buy stuff on planets, though.

A plot with characters and everything: Again, I think this would be fantastic if they could pull it off. Might be impossible to create a great sandbox game and still have a solid linear storyline, but it would be a great option to have, and it would give players new to the Elite experience something to relate to instead of just being presented with the vast coldness of space.

 

[Sleepery]

Wow, there's an awful lot of Eve hatred in here. It's easily the deepest, most tactical and involving mmo out there at the moment.

It doesn't, however, pander to the player's ego. Most mmo's give the illusion that the player is important - playing through instances that have epic events but don't actually impact the game world at all, or boss raids that reset themselves as soon as they're done.

Eve combat isn't click and pray, it's think very, very carefully before you click anything and hope your opponent isn't smarter than you.

Eve trading is about the only proper online economy in existence, completely player controlled. Don't complain if you're not as good at it as someone else.

Just because Eve doesn't hand you gratification on a plate, don't blame the game, just look for something simpler.

 

[Glaucus]

Eve combat isn't click and pray, it's think very, very carefully before you click anything and hope your opponent isn't smarter than you.
.

It is, but ultimately it is click and this is why MMOS at the moment fail so badly. Also the time based training is massively rubbish.

 

[SteveOBHave]

SteveOBHave I agree Eve is not a modern day Elite and Eve is far behind Elite in many areas but Eve combat is not just “A parody of it - click and pray doesn't count as combat.” Eve combat is complicated and requires tactics to win. It’s not just about who has the bigger numbers or click and wait and see who wins. If anything Eve combat is far more complicated and requires more thinking then Elites combat.

Having played EVE for an extended period of time I'm inclined to disagree with you. The key to winning combat is having the right setup, whether it be tanking or the right drones, and the right weapons for your form of engagement. It's also about having spend an insane amount of time and ISK on getting warp core stabilisers and decent weaponry. What it requires is having the forethought to have your rig set up in an approprite manner however fundamentally all this comes to naught if your opponent has a higher skill level, spent more on their ship and has the right electronic countermeasures to use against you. Fundamentally it comes down to select target, manage your power output vs your power stores, and then sit and wait for the smoke to clear to see who won. It is all about the bigger numbers and waiting to see what the (admittedly potentially loaded) dice role for you.

SteveOBHave said “it's technologies and what was going on on it's moons and planets and land on them I might have a differing opinion. In my opinion it would need a MASSIVE overhaul of the game engine and the intention of the EVE universe and that is never going to happen.”
MASSIVE overhaul? Its already been shown in the current engine.
Not going happen? It’s half due in the next expansion this year. The walking out of ships is due this winter. Planet landing and moon flying and flying inside giant asteroids with a joystick have been demoed but no idea when that’s due.

It’s not an engine problem they already showed it working.

I'll accept that when I see it. The engine updates have been largely cosmetic altho I have seen the up coming addition of space station walking however this is a far cry from landing on a planet seamlessly and exploring.

For me personally I feel the main thing that EVE lacks is depth and immersion. The whole idea that to get ahead in the game means that I have to join a bunch of other people just doesn't appeal. I have no desire to be part of a corporation and find the entire game structure is flawed in that unless you are interacting constantly with other people it has no soul. It is a great big empty place with no lore, no history, a broken trading system (I'll explain this in a moment) and no feeling of wonder or discovery.

Regarding the trading system, I hear from people all the time that it is because you don't know how to use it and that it's the most complete online trading system ever created and driven by the players. The problem I have is that it's not a decent system because CCP have created a way in which it can be entirely negated by the manufacturing process that your co-corp players are encouraged to use. It's a circular issue - everyone manufactures and floods the market with useless items that no-one buys and tries to sell them on at ridiculous prices. Because of this everyone turns to manufacturing and thus it goes around and around.

Admittedly there are ways to make money but then only if you are trading between high sec and lo sec space, this introduces the problem of getting intercepted by rats sitting on the cusp of .5 space waiting for unsuspecting solo traders and then subsequently blowing them away. This raises the other problem of making money in the trading system means either high value items or large quantities, preferably both. Of course any ship capable of carrying large volumes of cargo is virtually defenseless and you not only lose your ship and all the nice addons like extra cargo space and added maneuverability but all your precious cargo.

Regardless of what people keep saying EVE is a game that MUST be played as a corp member, it has no single player appeal at all. It has no depth, it's the same stuff over and over and over and the interaction is generated through players not by the NPCs which are shallow and characterless.

 

[SteveOBHave]

Wow, there's an awful lot of Eve hatred in here. It's easily the deepest, most tactical and involving mmo out there at the moment.

It doesn't, however, pander to the player's ego. Most mmo's give the illusion that the player is important - playing through instances that have epic events but don't actually impact the game world at all, or boss raids that reset themselves as soon as they're done.

But I want to be important. I want to be able to save the galaxy. I want to work for the empire and do special covert missions that earn me medals and ultimately gain me rank and favor. I want to feel like what I am doing in the game effects the environment as much as it effects me.

The only reason EVE is involving for people is through the PVP interaction, certainly not due to the depth of the game itself.

 

[Orcish-Horde]

Wow, there's an awful lot of Eve hatred in here. It's easily the deepest, most tactical and involving mmo out there at the moment.

It doesn't, however, pander to the player's ego. Most mmo's give the illusion that the player is important - playing through instances that have epic events but don't actually impact the game world at all, or boss raids that reset themselves as soon as they're done.

Eve combat isn't click and pray, it's think very, very carefully before you click anything and hope your opponent isn't smarter than you.

Eve trading is about the only proper online economy in existence, completely player controlled. Don't complain if you're not as good at it as someone else.

Just because Eve doesn't hand you gratification on a plate, don't blame the game, just look for something simpler.

I rather enjoy playing EVE but it is a click and pray game. In fact it can be played with only the info from the Overview, F1 to F8 and the right click drop down menu. Not that that is a bad thing but the game realy comes down to basic maths. Who can put out the most DPS before their defences give way or if you can warp before getting locked at a gate camp. Which all dependant on how many skill points you have and where they are.

 

[Pottsey]

SteveOBHave Said “The engine updates have been largely cosmetic altho I have seen the up coming addition of space station walking however this is a far cry from landing on a planet seamlessly and exploring.”
There are videos out there of Eve seamlessly landing on planets from space and exploring and with wormholes there is no way you can complain about bad exploring content. But I don’t believe planets are going in game any time soon. For sure not this year. Anyway that only means the engine can do it, not that its going be used in game.



SteveOBHave Said “For me personally I feel the main thing that EVE lacks is depth and immersion. The whole idea that to get ahead in the game means that I have to join a bunch of other people just doesn't appeal. I have no desire to be part of a corporation and find the entire game structure is flawed in that unless you are interacting constantly with other people it has no soul. It is a great big empty place with no lore, no history”
I 2/3’s agree with that and 1/3 disagree. Cosmos regions have soul, depth and immersion. The problem is there are only 4 Cosmos regions in all of Eve space. Epic missions are a step in the right direction and do have solo play with depth and immersion. But they are just a small part of Eve, a far to small part. I to do not like the needing to join a bunch of other people. Eve does lack depth and immersion and I often complain in the storyline thread about how bad they are at it. The story and immersion is certainty one of Eve’s weakest area’s.

As for combat I don’t agree but it’s not worth arguing about it here.



SteveOBHave said “I want to work for the empire and do special covert missions that earn me medals and ultimately gain me rank and favor. I want to feel like what I am doing in the game effects the environment as much as it effects me.”
I got really iterated with that in Eve. They added all that in with Faction Warfare but messed it up by focusing it on PvP. Whose bright idea was it to do all that stuff via PvE but force the PvE people into PvP. There should be a PvP section but there should be a PvE version of Faction Warfare that is PvE only. Eve is not about PvP less then 1% of accounts PvP and lose ships yet the devs focues far to much on PvP.

 

[m4cc45]

Eve doesn't feel that good to me. It's just very, very boring. I'm not sure what to do or where to go next as it's been on the market too much, and because of the time based training, there's no real hope of catching the high end people up (which you can do in most MMO's).

It truly, for me, is a boring game - I can't spend more than 10 minutes on there before I think why the hell am I trying to play this. The combat has to be the worst in any space sim I've ever played. Freelancer, Freespace 2, Frontier and many others had great combat but this is dire.



M.

 

[Sleepery]

But I want to be important. I want to be able to save the galaxy. I want to work for the empire and do special covert missions that earn me medals and ultimately gain me rank and favor. I want to feel like what I am doing in the game effects the environment as much as it effects me.

Admittedly Eve is a completely corp based game. If you're not part of one, it's a massively boring experience.

As regards the sense of importance, what gets me about most mmo's is that not only is the sense of importance an illusion, it's such a shoddily constructed one that it's just downright patronising.

In Eve you have a vastly smaller chance of doing something game changing, but at least the possibility is there. I guess I'm just getting tired of the spoon-fed reward / title system a lot of recent mmo's push at you and expect you to be happy with.

Derailing the thread here, sorry

 

[SteveOBHave]

Admittedly Eve is a completely corp based game. If you're not part of one, it's a massively boring experience.

As regards the sense of importance, what gets me about most mmo's is that not only is the sense of importance an illusion, it's such a shoddily constructed one that it's just downright patronising.

In Eve you have a vastly smaller chance of doing something game changing, but at least the possibility is there. I guess I'm just getting tired of the spoon-fed reward / title system a lot of recent mmo's push at you and expect you to be happy with.

Derailing the thread here, sorry

No not derailing at all. I think you're right but the effort and time that is involved in getting to the point of effecting the game environment is prohibitive. We're always hearing about these stories of people who spend years worming their way into corps only to shatter them from the inside. WHY for goodness sakes???

I understand the risk/work versus reward desire and I can only imagine the buzz of pulling off a major heist but I think the average gamer doesn't have that time to invest.

I recently canceled my subscription to Lord of the Rings online for much the same reason - even tho there is an illusion of there being a sandbox type environment it is fundamentally a linear environment with one start and one ultimate finish.

The thing with Elite Frontier was that it was your own life, your own ship and you played it the way you wanted. You didn't have to bandy to a corp or to a set storyline. It's going to be a major undertaking for Elite 4 to supply a similar game play experience and still hold its own with the lofty expectations of modern day gaming.

 

[SteveOBHave]

There are videos out there of Eve seamlessly landing on planets from space and exploring and with wormholes there is no way you can complain about bad exploring content. But I don’t believe planets are going in game any time soon. For sure not this year. Anyway that only means the engine can do it, not that its going be used in game.

Have you got links to these videos? I'm curious to see what they offer.

As for combat I don’t agree but it’s not worth arguing about it here.

Why not? I'm curious as to what I'm missing with the combat thing.

SteveOBHave said “I want to work for the empire and do special covert missions that earn me medals and ultimately gain me rank and favor. I want to feel like what I am doing in the game effects the environment as much as it effects me.”
I got really iterated with that in Eve. They added all that in with Faction Warfare but messed it up by focusing it on PvP. Whose bright idea was it to do all that stuff via PvE but force the PvE people into PvP. There should be a PvP section but there should be a PvE version of Faction Warfare that is PvE only. Eve is not about PvP less then 1% of accounts PvP and lose ships yet the devs focues far to much on PvP.

I'm not even talking about the combat - just the gameplay full stop - it's just a massive yawnfest. (in my opinion of course).

 

[Dano]

Wow, there's an awful lot of Eve hatred in here. It's easily the deepest, most tactical and involving mmo out there at the moment.

Which doesn't change the fact that is not in any shape or form Elite or a successor to it. Eve is point and click, Elite is not, end of.

It doesn't, however, pander to the player's ego. Most mmo's give the illusion that the player is important - playing through instances that have epic events but don't actually impact the game world at all, or boss raids that reset themselves as soon as they're done.

It panders to the ego explicitly, why else is there such a need for kill boards and such.

Eve combat isn't click and pray, it's think very, very carefully before you click anything and hope your opponent isn't smarter than you.

It's still a completely different system to Elite.

Eve trading is about the only proper online economy in existence, completely player controlled. Don't complain if you're not as good at it as someone else.

Did they remove NPC buy orders? (It's been a while...)

Just because Eve doesn't hand you gratification on a plate, don't blame the game, just look for something simpler.

No, it makes you pay for xMonths before allowing you to gain enough skills and items through isk grinding before handing you gratification on a plate. A good business plan maybe, a fun game maybe. A reason to deride people who can see it for the petty and pretty spreadsheet it is - only in the eyes of those who need such self gratification.