I think you'll find it is a fairly reasonable term to be directed towards you given what you have posted in this thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-luddism
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Employer is requiring biometric data for clocking on, can I refuse?
- Thread starter Dano
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I think you'll find it is a fairly reasonable term to be directed towards you given what you have posted in this thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-luddism
I think you'll find you've missed what I was insulted about, or should I call you a retard and see how you react too?
As for the neo-luddite comment, so a one time opposition to a single piece of technology in a specific useage scenario is enough to label me as one? Harsh but oh well, I'll live with it and carry on with my embracing of technology as it arises
Erm, if you're already in employment, you signed it already - unless your employer has been particularly lax in their policies. Ergo that statement was correct.
I have an exception written in to my contract, I should know.
Because at the moment (or with a non biometric system) someone else can clock you in/out thus not giving a true reflection of when you've actually worked.
This kind of conjecture implies that there is no trust in the relationship between employer and employee, though. Most places have CCTV these days so there's no real reason why someone would do this for you.
I don't think biometrics are necessary in this scenario unless it's a high-security environment. What's wrong with proximity cards?
Erm, if you're already in employment, you signed it already - unless your employer has been particularly lax in their policies. Ergo that statement was correct.
I have an exception written in to my contract, I should know.
That would be why I said before you sign it and why as a current employee I asked the question as to whether I had any options other than putting up with it or quitting.
Please, try to read what I post.
Neither could anybody with a pin number, and seeing as there is a member of management on at both ends of my shift if I was to give my pin to somebody it would very quickly come to light and be backed up by the cctv.
Indeed, but how often do they sit and watch people clocking out to make sure that people do actually do it themselves? would be a complete waste of time, and the fingerprint idea is actually a very good idea.
I'd be more worried about how they secure it. Ideally you'd want a finger print scan plus a pin code (two factor authentication) since finger prints can be copied from objects with sticky tape. Unless of course these machines can detect fakes from the real thing???
Are the management there solely to ensure you are the person who you say you are checking in or just so happens that's where they're positioned?
Seems pointless to me, a manager checking staff attendance would be the most reliable option, cctv would also work, every other method is fallable, why a firm would ever rely on people clocking themselves in whether that be fingerprint readers or any other method I don't know, too easy to abuse.
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Of course not, but given they are management it is part of their job to know who is on at any given time so that they can manage them, bear in mind that there is usually two to seven (seven being a maximum I have never seen exceeded and that was with two, possibly even three members of the management team) staff members on at any time.
Don
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Hang on, we are talking about a clocking in system here.. It will be fingerprint recognition at its most basic level. Low resolution and cheap.
I severely doubt they will be using a security grade police database type scanning system
Fingerprint systems have advantages over other systems. The biggest from a management point of view is that the device for clocking in is rarely lost! This reduces maintenance, costs and removes excuses.
It sounds like they already have cctv in place, which means tampering is out of the question really. Any suspicion, and it will be obvious something is going on and very easy to check on.
And there you are accusing people of not reading posts. Try reading three posts in context. Since you said you were already in gainful employment, I simply assumed that you'd already signed a contract of employment. On that basis, your subsequent comment was utterly redundant - unless you have means to renegotiate an existing contract (possible, but unlikely in the circumstances). My post was merely stating that fact and there was no need to bite my head off.
Anyway, this is going around in massive circles.
So, let's summarise the situation. Biometrics may not have been the best solution (there are arguments for and against, depending on circumstances), but unless you can argue your case in far more persuasive terms than just because you think it's unnecessary, then it's there to stay, and there isn't a jot you can do about it. So then, accept it or resign.
In summary: I think you'll quit. I think that's probably the right choice (for you).
I'd say fingerprint clocking in is likely to be cheaper to set-up and maintain. Adding and removing someone from the system costs nothing whereas there would be a cost with swipe-cards etc. There's also the problem of lost cards or forgotten PINs with other systems. Fingerprint readers seem like a very sensible way to do it.
Soldato
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lol dvdbun..............
What I meant to say was get off that high horse before you have an accident. I doubt your company is doing this without good reason, it must be an expensive exercise to change their existing systems.
Another thing to consider, if you start kicking up a fuss, they're gonna think you've got something to lose and you're likely to find yourself coming under scrutiny.
Not to mention harder to defraud.
What I meant to say was get off that high horse before you have an accident. I doubt your company is doing this without good reason, it must be an expensive exercise to change their existing systems.
Another thing to consider, if you start kicking up a fuss, they're gonna think you've got something to lose and you're likely to find yourself coming under scrutiny.
Not to mention harder to defraud.
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Hang on, we are talking about a clocking in system here.. It will be fingerprint recognition at its most basic level. Low resolution and cheap.
I severely doubt they will be using a security grade police database type scanning system
Fingerprint systems have advantages over other systems. The biggest from a management point of view is that the device for clocking in is rarely lost! This reduces maintenance, costs and removes excuses.
It sounds like they already have cctv in place, which means tampering is out of the question really. Any suspicion, and it will be obvious something is going on and very easy to check on.
True, although surely a simple card reader system would be cheaper. The cards themselves aren't expensive and they should be able to terminate a card if it is lost/stolen and re-issue a new one.
Absolutely, because you clearly missed the 'before' part, however I will apologise as it may have been an oversight rather than you not having read it, my apologies.
True it may have been redundant but I clearly stated the context in which a contract could be amended did I not? I was only making clear to anybody reading that a contract can be amended before signing.
And that would be the sort of answer I was looking for in the first place
Possibly, depends on what details I can get on the actual system as installed.
I think this thread would have gone a whole lot easier if it wasn't for:
I get the feeling that this is some kind of excuse to yourself to go to that other job you have lined up. Either that or it's one of those abhorrent things people call 'principles'.
I get the feeling that this is some kind of excuse to yourself to go to that other job you have lined up. Either that or it's one of those abhorrent things people call 'principles'.