Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

silversurfer said:
Some of the energy will be used in heat, transformers definitely lose something but I can believe 95% is possible for a large scale process. The other part is the battery itself losing charge but modern batteries are far better for that afaik.

Compare it to PSU on pc, they can get very high percent efficiency there so I suppose it is possible when its exact factors and mass produced technology. Only charging between 80 and 20% is part of whats needed for the battery to last and also heat has to be regulated especially with fast charge or discharge
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95% will be absolutely best case scenario. Real world will be much different.

Kind of like my car. Officially is supposed to give 47.1mpg, real world I get 37-38. I once got low 40’s on a long run but that certainly wasn’t isn’t normal.
 
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Curlyriff said:
It isn't just hard it is impossible for it to be live. All you are suggesting is instead of it being fixed in contract for say a year or whatever when you sign up it is agile in daily or weekly or whatever. So my point is that it isn't live agile at the time. You are just moving the goal post from what is currently given in the industry as peak/off-peak in UK to a more dynamic version of giving windows of peak/off-peak.

I am not suggesting they cannot extrapolate data to give an approx or anything on expected usage of energy. Nice try with that though.

No 100% get why variable is better for those that it makes sense for, it doesn't protect those whom would be penalised for it. The problem is that I really don't think the peaks and troughs of the variable will be enough to bring it down total for those whom are stuck with having to use energy in peak would not be significantly worse off. The total bill for the average user indeed would be less but those groups highlighted and discussed prior I don't think it would from what the change would be. You are still going to see those higher peaks in those average critical times because although you can shift some stuff about a significant amount of usage still happens in that window and always will.

What needs to go with the agile and such is the ability to still draw from alternative sources locally via a battery and such and thus not from grid during those periods to keep that peak lower still to make it viable. Those such on medical equipment that is expensive to run and on 24/7 should be given a grant to have solar and battery installed, in the medium term this would be beneficial for all as well.

The point is that you can't just shift people to variable pricing on peak/off-peak now in my view and be viable for 100%.
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Earlier you were complaining you wouldnt have notice now its that it cant be live.
Make you mind up.
It could be live as well for sure, they know exactly what is going into the mix and what its costing.

I think you would be wrong on the pricing side, those with a high baseload would likely see lower bills.
The only ones who would be likely to see higher were those who insisted on using a LOT at true peak times.
Well they should be penalised for it, right now we are all paying for their lack of flexibility.

There could be fringe cases who end up worse off who genuinely cannot afford to move that. IMO they should be given a grant if its provable that they are vulnerable.
 
silversurfer said:
Some of the energy will be used in heat, transformers definitely lose something but I can believe 95% is possible for a large scale process. The other part is the battery itself losing charge but modern batteries are far better for that afaik.

Compare it to PSU on pc, they can get very high percent efficiency there so I suppose it is possible when its exact factors and mass produced technology. Only charging between 80 and 20% is part of whats needed for the battery to last and also heat has to be regulated especially with fast charge or discharge
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They don't generate much heat in reality since the batteries don't do the conversion, the inverter does that.

Doobedoo said:
95% will be absolutely best case scenario. Real world will be much different.

Kind of like my car. Officially is supposed to give 47.1mpg, real world I get 37-38. I once got low 40’s on a long run but that certainly wasn’t isn’t normal.
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lol
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Have proof of what lol

Your dumb comment about your cars not meeting the official MPG
Or the dumb comparison of an ICE engine to battery charging
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Ok so I know you have a battery, congrats, but I’ve had mine since 2018 so I’ve had plenty of time to understand that 95% is pie in the sky.

Would you like me to show you how wrong it is?
 
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Or you know the government and energy producers and suppliers could really focus on cheap, reliable, efficient, green energy production in a really big way so we can all heat our homes whenever we want on low affordable rates 24/7.

All this represents is a massive distraction from the real issues.
 
Doobedoo said:
Ok so I know you have a battery, congrats, but I’ve had mine since 2018 so I’ve had plenty of time to understand that 95% is pie in the sky.

Would you like me to show you how wrong it is?
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Knock your self out

You still posted a comment that took two 2023 dumb awards for comparing the "official" MPG of a car to you specific usage and comparing an ICE engine to battery charging.
 
Shoza said:
Or you know the government and energy producers and suppliers could really focus on cheap, reliable, efficient, green energy production in a really big way so we can all heat our homes whenever we want on low affordable rates 24/7.

All this represents is a massive distraction from the real issues.
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Practically impossible though in reality without massive massive over provisioning
 
Doobedoo said:
Ok so I know you have a battery, congrats, but I’ve had mine since 2018 so I’ve had plenty of time to understand that 95% is pie in the sky.

Would you like me to show you how wrong it is?
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The battery can be 95% efficient, but as I pointed out in a previous post, charger and inverter inefficiencies reduce the true round trip efficiency to low 80s.
 
586-E0-FFD-104-F-4-D69-86-BB-0-E75-E5239312.png

This is my charging profile which starts at 0.30am and charges at 3.1kWh until 03.25 and then ramps down and charges between 0.6 and 0.4 kWh until it’s fully charged at 04.40am. Even I’m conservative let’s say it consumes about 9.5kWh.

6-ECDF438-F070-4-FA1-8-D2-D-6-C48-FD13-E869.png


So for 9.5ish kWh input I got 6.9 kWh output. My maths aren’t that great but that’s not 95% efficiency.
 
Doobedoo said:
586-E0-FFD-104-F-4-D69-86-BB-0-E75-E5239312.png

This is my charging profile which starts at 0.30am and charges at 3.1kWh until 03.25 and then ramps down and charges between 0.6 and 0.4 kWh until it’s fully charged at 04.40am. Even I’m conservative let’s say it consumes about 9.5kWh.

6-ECDF438-F070-4-FA1-8-D2-D-6-C48-FD13-E869.png


So for 9.5ish kWh input I got 6.9 kWh output. My maths aren’t that great but that’s not 95% efficiency.
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Christ that looks bad.

I have an issue with mine at the mo, ongoing with installer so they are not charging to max.
On basically no/ultra low solar days I get around 8.4kwh and from what I can tell my input is 9.x kwh. the X I have come up with anything from 0 to 3 (ie 9.0 to 9.3)

My maths are great being an accountant.
Thats 90% worst case to 93% best case.

Is yours AC or via an inverter.
No fans in mine at all, my issue is the opposite in that even at 5.5kwh they aren't that warm, were recording 4c during cold spell which is why installer says they are not going to 100% charge.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Christ that looks bad.

I have an issue with mine at the mo, ongoing with installer so they are not charging to max.
On basically no/ultra low solar days I get around 8.4kwh and from what I can tell my input is 9.x kwh. the X I have come up with anything from 0 to 3 (ie 9.0 to 9.3)

My maths are great being an accountant.
Thats 90% worst case to 93% best case.

Is yours AC or via an inverter.
No fans in mine at all, my issue is the opposite in that even at 5.5kwh they aren't that warm, were recording 4c during cold spell which is why installer says they are not going to 100% charge.
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What size is your battery?

Mine is AC but it has its own inverter and can be fed dc if you wanted too.
 
Doobedoo said:
What size is your battery?

Mine is AC but it has its own inverter and can be fed dc if you wanted too.
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Its 4x 3.1 (quoted at 12.3 as a group)
90% DOD and quoted useable as 11kwh

Problem is I can't get them to take in more than low 9.x kwh. Hence why I have checked that number like 20 times on diff days.
I am convinced 1 isn't working. Installer says all fine.
My main thought as to why is, 3x are listed as 8.4 usable basically what I am getting.
When they hit around 73% SOC on charging within 10 minutes they will say 95%+ and will already have ramped back charging to very little.
Problem is that the BMS shows as one pack. It can see them all so they say its fine.
 
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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Its 4x 3.1 (quoted at 12.3 as a group)
90% DOD and quoted useable as 11kwh

Problem is I can't get them to take in more than low 9.x kwh. Hence why I have checked that number like 20 times on diff days.
I am convinced 1 isn't working. Installer says all fine.
My main thought as to why is, 3x are listed as 8.4 usable basically what I am getting.
When they hit around 73% SOC on charging within 10 minutes they will say 95%+ and will already have ramped back charging to very little.
Problem is that the BMS shows as one pack. It can see them all so they say its fine.
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I had an issue for months with mine and badgered them to sort it out. Turns out the processor board inside was faulty and it wouldn’t accept a full charge. Replaced the board which fixed the issue.
 
Doobedoo said:
I had an issue for months with mine and badgered them to sort it out. Turns out the processor board inside was faulty and it wouldn’t accept a full charge. Replaced the board which fixed the issue.
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My assumption really is one of the four is either borked completely, or not connected properly.
Both installer and manufacturer are basically in fob off mode. So I am having to wait for warmer weather.

I can't get a straight answer on if they are the ones with heater packs in them that list -30 to 50c operating range.
Because if they are they should from what I can tell operate around the low positive C range without any noticeable impact.
Its just too damn convenient that 8.4 usable is a 3 battery system and I get 8.4 usable, plus it never seems to noticeably deviate within acceptable tolerances.
So its not like I have ever got close to 9+ useable.

I am semi resigned to having to wait a couple of months, not see any difference and then make a fuss again. :(
 
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