Soldato
Because everyone likes points and you can also donate them if you want.
Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)
- Thread starter DXP55
- Start date
Because everyone likes points and you can also donate them if you want.
Points are for the benefit of marketing and the company. Just makes it look better.
If there isn't going to be a fixed time when stuff is cheaper, frankly I'm not going to partake.
If cheap times are going to jump around the only viable method is to automate your house with a small battery.
This small battery would charge (automatically) at cheap time and discharge off the cheap rate.
However with battery conversion efficiency this probably won't help either.
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Soldato
Well agile for example gives you tomorrows one day in advance, somewhere around mid/late afternoon.
Its when the pricing tends to come together and why the savings sessions tend to be announced around then. You can follow the NG on twitter if you want to see their announcements on risk coming
I am sure they could find a way of averaging over shorter periods of time, like a week to give some more certainty, without allowing the incoming vs outgoing to get massively out of wack.
Soldato
Exactly Agile makes sense where you can automate the change in times to being variable when you can draw the requirement via an alternative source. I am not clarvoient yet to be able to guess how the national grid is doing in terms of being on or off peak to know if I can cook and it cost me £1.50 to £5.00 or whatever just cause I got the window wrong.
Soldato
Battery conversion isn't that bad actually. AC to DC is like 95%.
If cheaper units you store are 50% of normal price, then it easily makes sense, maybe less than 50% even achievable depends.
Soldato
Okay so we are going to have fixed time periods but they are dynamically given the day before even though the grid has no idea until it happens if that is high or low when it gets to it. Right. And that benefit for everyone needing to check when it is compared to just having it on general fix periods is?
Also don't use any social media so everything would have to be given from the supplier to myself via their portal to follow.
Soldato
Points / pounds basically irrelevant. You can convert points to pounds immediately online in to account credit.
Cheap times will jump around if we follow the actual costs of production yes.
I am pretty sure if there was a need you would get plenty of devices that are relatively higher draw to have grid integration built in.
I don't think many are active yet, but some of the home batteries have integration built in to make them aware of the grid pricing. (potentially)
Soldato
They already do it, its not "hard" for them even if its hard for you to imagine.
They aren't accurate to a kw but they will be to MW levels, or certainly 0.1GW levels.
Are you the sort of person who considers weather forecasts to always be wrong?
Maybe you should consider expanding your horizons a bit then. If you follow stuff like the NG you will see how they are far more capable than you think.
So if NG cannot predict a day in advance how do they decide when to do the sessions? Ponder that for a while.
I already explained and you said you understood why variable pricing is better. I guess you didn't.
The peak generation (the real peak not the nonsense 8am-5pm carp) costs massively higher rates, genuinely massively higher.
We all have to pay for that, we all pay in effect the average of all the costs added together / the number of units produced.
If we can pull the peaks down (the real peaks) those most expensive units will not be produced.
The total bill for all the units will be lower.
The more we eliminate the most expensive units the lower the total bill gets.
If we encourage people to use the cheapest they can that assists in that shift. As people shift the profile flattens since it will adjust to reflect supply and demand.
Now supply isn't fixed, its quite variable, this dynamic changed from the 60s when the fixed pricing use all you want when you want made sense.
Is archaic just like some peoples thinking.
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Why isn't there a law where all electronics now had to be smart.
Link it all to the smart meter and bobs your uncle.
Things like freezers could switch off during peak times and back on at cheaper times and obviously on when required same for fridges.
The washing machine and dryer could be set to switch on when prices are within a range.
Same with smart plugs ability to have them come on when off peak for doing things like charging batteries. It's an really simple to implement as well just needs to be pushed on people.
Link it all to the smart meter and bobs your uncle.
Things like freezers could switch off during peak times and back on at cheaper times and obviously on when required same for fridges.
The washing machine and dryer could be set to switch on when prices are within a range.
Same with smart plugs ability to have them come on when off peak for doing things like charging batteries. It's an really simple to implement as well just needs to be pushed on people.
Soldato
Not law yet (maybe never) but a few devices (mainly solar related) are start to be capable of that or have hooks built in to enable it.
Its only software for many devices that are already wifi (hence potentially internet) enabled.
Funny you mention it though, its one of the things the Smart meter CT nutjobs go on about for the opposite reason.
But yes, if we had variable pricing it would be pretty easy to have the devices look up a schedule and switch themselves on to make best use. If you wanted that of course.
Modern fridges and freezers are great examples, basically no need to "top up" between 4-6pm even if opened once.
Yet every single one of them will be unless turned off.
95 percent?
I thought it was something around 70?
But that could be because I'm using what I get from my dc to dc power banks!
95pc sounds high.
You're going grid to battery
Then battery to home device.
If it is above 90pc my mind is blown
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Soldato
My home batteries quote 95% round trip as well
Associate
I doubt it's above 90%. I had a Victron inverter/charger back in SA, which is a pretty decent brand. Charging efficiency was around 90-92%, and discharge efficiency was about 95% - so overall about 85%, but the batteries also had losses - round trip efficiency of the order of 95%. So I reckon that takes overall efficiency down to the low 80s.
Soldato
Lithium Ion are the typical home storage batteries
"Which battery has highest round trip efficiency?
Lithium-ion batteries
Lithium-ion batteries are particularly efficient (about 95% on average)"
"What is round trip efficiency thermal energy storage?
In the context of energy storage, round-trip efficiency means the fraction of energy put into storage that can be retrieved."
"Which battery has highest round trip efficiency?
Lithium-ion batteries
Lithium-ion batteries are particularly efficient (about 95% on average)"
"What is round trip efficiency thermal energy storage?
In the context of energy storage, round-trip efficiency means the fraction of energy put into storage that can be retrieved."
Soldato
With SSC here. Currently 1k in credit with both elec and gas combined. Paying £280 a month combined. I told them we wouldn't be using as much as last year, but no. They hiked our DD. gas usage over the last 3 months is down 45% on same period last year and elec is down 20% same period. Come April/May we are going to eat into that credit big time. Thats a bloody holiday paid for that is.
Permabanned
My battery isn’t close to 95% and it’s lithium. I think 95% is very optimistic.
Soldato
It isn't just hard it is impossible for it to be live. All you are suggesting is instead of it being fixed in contract for say a year or whatever when you sign up it is agile in daily or weekly or whatever. So my point is that it isn't live agile at the time. You are just moving the goal post from what is currently given in the industry as peak/off-peak in UK to a more dynamic version of giving windows of peak/off-peak.
I am not suggesting they cannot extrapolate data to give an approx or anything on expected usage of energy. Nice try with that though.
No 100% get why variable is better for those that it makes sense for, it doesn't protect those whom would be penalised for it. The problem is that I really don't think the peaks and troughs of the variable will be enough to bring it down total for those whom are stuck with having to use energy in peak would not be significantly worse off. The total bill for the average user indeed would be less but those groups highlighted and discussed prior I don't think it would from what the change would be. You are still going to see those higher peaks in those average critical times because although you can shift some stuff about a significant amount of usage still happens in that window and always will.
What needs to go with the agile and such is the ability to still draw from alternative sources locally via a battery and such and thus not from grid during those periods to keep that peak lower still to make it viable. Those such on medical equipment that is expensive to run and on 24/7 should be given a grant to have solar and battery installed, in the medium term this would be beneficial for all as well.
The point is that you can't just shift people to variable pricing on peak/off-peak now in my view and be viable for 100%.
Soldato
Some of the energy will be used in heat, transformers definitely lose something but I can believe 95% is possible for a large scale process. The other part is the battery itself losing charge but modern batteries are far better for that afaik.
Compare it to PSU on pc, they can get very high percent efficiency there so I suppose it is possible when its exact factors and mass produced technology. Only charging between 80 and 20% is part of whats needed for the battery to last and also heat has to be regulated especially with fast charge or discharge
Compare it to PSU on pc, they can get very high percent efficiency there so I suppose it is possible when its exact factors and mass produced technology. Only charging between 80 and 20% is part of whats needed for the battery to last and also heat has to be regulated especially with fast charge or discharge
We got 4986 points for the 23rd, not sure why because at that time no one is ever in so we would have used the same as we normally do. I know you get a bonus sometimes for being in the top 10% or something as we did for a couple of previous sessions.
24th still calculating for me too.
Currently on 15360 points.