Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

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bigmike20vt said:
so does the UK sometimes. it did a week ago tho mostly thanks to wind.. long may it continue.
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UK renewables certainly seems to be moving in the right direction, just need that nuclear investment now to handle the periods when it's not sunny or windy. Hopefully some massive continued investment in hyperscale battery storage as well and the overall grid ability to handle it.
 
we are already paying wind-farms not to produce to cope with oversupply - thought it was some £40 per person per year, and estimated to go up to some 200/300 by end of decade ..
so need to get that hydrogen storage online or community heat stores
 
jpaul said:
we are already paying wind-farms not to produce to cope with oversupply - thought it was some £40 per person per year, and estimated to go up to some 200/300 by end of decade ..
so need to get that hydrogen storage online or community heat stores
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Curtailment it is called.

Wasted wind power will add £40 to the average UK household's electricity bill in 2023, according to a think tank. That figure could increase to £150 in 2026, Carbon Tracker has estimated.

When it is very windy, the grid cannot handle the extra power generated. Wind farms are paid to switch off and gas-powered stations are paid to fire up. The cost is passed on to consumers.


Most of the UK's offshore wind farms are in England - Dogger Bank off the coast of Yorkshire is the largest in the world. Meanwhile, around half of onshore wind farms are in Scotland but most electricity is used in south-east England.

Carbon Tracker said the main problem in getting electricity to where it is needed is a bottleneck in transmission between Scotland and England.
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One of the highest SC regions producing the electric that supplies the lowest SC region and then has to stop supplying it because the National Grid cant cope at times with the large amount that is produced.... Sounds about right :cry:

There are a few battery farms being built in Scotland just now which will at least reduce this a little.


EDIT - This is an interesting part of the report for 2023:

Electricity Exports

Exports and imports data showed that Scotland exported 17.7 TWh of electricity and imported 1.8 TWh of electricity in 2023. This means that Scotland’s net exports of electricity (exports minus imports) in 2023 was 15.9 TWh (Figure 5). Scotland’s net electricity exports in 2023 had an indicative value of £1.5 billion based on the average day-ahead wholesale price.

figure-5-electricity-transfer-jpg
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https://www.gov.scot/publications/energy-statistics-for-scotland-q4-2023/pages/electricity-exports/
 
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OldKitMan said:
UK renewables certainly seems to be moving in the right direction, just need that nuclear investment now to handle the periods when it's not sunny or windy. Hopefully some massive continued investment in hyperscale battery storage as well and the overall grid ability to handle it.
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Alternatively, invest heavily in tidal development - underwater tides are predictable and could be used as a good electricity base.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
No. simply need to upgrade the national grid so the generating areas can actually send it all where it can be used.
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Yup, it’s all about getting the pylons up but the NIMBYs are fighting them every step of the way. The irony is their argument is because of the environment - you couldn’t make it up really.

It’s gone beyond NIMBY now, they are very much in ‘over my dead body’ mode.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
I'm on free elec today between 2-4pm



No. simply need to upgrade the national grid so the generating areas can actually send it all where it can be used.
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Or send it elsewhere where they need it via new undersea cables other countries have different peak demand to us then we buy it back from them when our demand is high reduce the amount of stations idling on standby here. Of course our govt doesn't give a toss about that and is happy to commission lots of brand new carbon producing gas powered stations 'cos we don't care about global warming anymore or infact anything other than the nimby voters in the tory shires.
 
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Blackjack Davy said:
Or send it elsewhere where they need it via new undersea cables other countries have different peak demand to us then we buy it back from them when our demand is high reduce the amount of stations idling on standby here. Of course our govt doesn't give a toss about that and is happy to commission lot of new carbon producing gas powered stations 'cos we don't care about global warming anymore or infact anything other than the nimby voters in the tory shires.
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We have loads on interconnects with every neighbouring country in Europe already.

The pylons are needed to get the power to those interconnects also.

In reality, we need new gas powered power stations as well for the foreseeable because the wind doesn’t blow all the time and the ones which are currently filling the gaps are coming to the end of their expected life span.

There will be an interconnected European super grid of renewables eventually but not anytime soon.
 
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jpaul said:
we are already paying wind-farms not to produce to cope with oversupply - thought it was some £40 per person per year, and estimated to go up to some 200/300 by end of decade ..
so need to get that hydrogen storage online or community heat stores
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curtailment has been a thing since for ever. it cheeses me off no doubt, but i would rather pay windfarms curtailment as well as give users free electricity......... than pay coal powerstations.

but as already stated the answer is to sort out the national grid so that it can cope better.

it is quite depressing that sometimes in parts of the country windfarms are being curtailed whilst in other parts of the country coal is being burned.
 
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What we should do is reward the areas with pylons and generation with specific rebates and load the cost to the areas that need the energy imported, and yes I mean within the UK.

The best way to deal with NIMBYs is to sideline them. The best way to sideline them is to give the silent majority where the changes are needed those lower bills.
Maybe then the places with the high demand will see some generation there, reducing the need to move it from elsewhere, and it will be enough to offset the "but it doesn't look very nice whilst I am out chasing hares Tarquin" lot.

I do love the free leccy though so don't do it too quickly ;)
A load of washing, a full dishwasher load, heated up the hot water after a shower and filled my 11.3kwh batteries from 10% to 100% SOC today, whilst also powering the house from 2-4pm
Probably about 15kwh or so used for free. I am now exporting at 15p per kwh as the sun has come out, but I also dumped around 4kwh to the grid before 2pm start :)
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
What we should do is reward the areas with pylons and generation with specific rebates and load the cost to the areas that need the energy imported, and yes I mean within the UK.

The best way to deal with NIMBYs is to sideline them. The best way to sideline them is to give the silent majority where the changes are needed those lower bills.
Maybe then the places with the high demand will see some generation there, reducing the need to move it from elsewhere, and it will be enough to offset the "but it doesn't look very nice whilst I am out chasing hares Tarquin" lot.
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Completely agree.

I've used this word before as I can't think of a better word but the generator regions are "subsidising" the other regions. I know a couple of people on here will challenge the "subsidy" bit hence why it's in quotes so I'll explain it a little - Why should regions of the country pay the highest for the infrastructure that provides the electricity to their homes when it is, generally, the same regions that are generating said electricity and "exporting" it to regions that pay the least amount for the same supply infrastructure.

I cant find the split (and the numbers may not actually be available) for the NE and East of England which have large Renewables so I'm afraid I can only use Scotland as an example (See the bottom of post #26,009 above).
 
Richie said:
Completely agree.

I've used this word before as I can't think of a better word but the generator regions are "subsidising" the other regions. I know a couple of people on here will challenge the "subsidy" bit hence why it's in quotes so I'll explain it a little - Why should regions of the country pay the highest for the infrastructure that provides the electricity to their homes when it is, generally, the same regions that are generating said electricity and "exporting" it to regions that pay the least amount for the same supply infrastructure.

I cant find the split (and the numbers may not actually be available) for the NE and East of England which have large Renewables so I'm afraid I can only use Scotland as an example (See the bottom of post #26,009 above).
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Did you find a source for the claim that you are funding the infrastructure yet?
 
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