Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

And they pay less towards it as a consequence.


Not necessarily. Commercial rates are often very low when renewables are at their highest output. Landowners in Scotland are paid a percentage of the wind farm profits or a fixed rent for their land, its not unsubstantial, the 'locals' would benefit more from seeing a share of this plus owning their own turbines rather than foreign governments and investors owning a lot of it.


Its a bit different because it was publicly owned, nobody had a choice. Now wind farms need the national grid to sell their energy as in most of these areas there isnt enough demand on the local grid and the turbines would have to the turned off more often.


Already been discussed though, the regions using more 'grid' are paying more for it.

Your being a bit obtuse here. Its been done to death.
Those using more grid seem to be paying a notional amount, when clearly the main reason we are upgrading the grid is because there is a massive gap between where its being generated and where its being used.
ALL the major grid works lead to L&SE in effect.

Again IMO its simple, the same model should be used for unit costs and network distribution. Lets fix it so it works for how the UK generates and uses and where the driver of those costs come from.
The model currently uses a mechanism for each that is more beneficial to L&SE.
Its really not hard, its literally the end result.

Plenty of solar farms in England now, it is changing with regards to nimbyism. But some of the old abandoned projects should be looked at again, plenty of space for more offshore wind down this way.

There are but again are they in L&SE? The largest in the UK (one that Labour gov green lit) is happening near me, was stuck in planning for years. Again its well away from the areas that have the largest energy deficits.
Its literally agreed to cause local disruption, even talk of closing or limiting access to the exit from the local A trunk road that I use in order to give priority to the works traffic.
Plus no matter how minor the large battery storage does come with some risk should* it catch fire.

* Unlike the virtually 100% its sure to burn down within days of going live that the local NIMBYs were claiming.

 

[Richie]

Sizewell isn't in same area as London and SE. We are Eastern region.

Fair enough I am not that familiar with the regions down there

That example land is marsh land, it’s basically a muggy bog and highly vulnerable to flooding. Not exactly prime real estate fora nuclear power station.

I'm sure there will be an appropriate parcel of land in the London/SE area that will accomodate Nuclear or renewables...

 

[Richie]

Already been discussed though, the regions using more 'grid' are paying more for it.

What do you specifically mean by "using more grid"?

EDIT: This is not a "gotcha" post, I just want to establish what you mean by it so it can be discussed in good faith i.e. not 20 posts of back and forth until its realised people have differing definitions.

 

[MissChief]

My fixed tariff with Octopus is coming to an end. I've had zero issues with them so am happy to stay and they seem less prone to errors in billing than others. Options are another fix but slightly above the current rate for another 12 months or wholesale tracker which is currently less than the fixed but could rise. I pay £100pm during the summer when the gas heating is off, used only for hot water and usually up that to £150pm in the winter but I'm always in credit, sometimes by £300+.

 

[200sols]

What do you specifically mean by "using more grid"?

EDIT: This is not a "gotcha" post, I just want to establish what you mean by it so it can be discussed in good faith i.e. not 20 posts of back and forth until its realised people have differing definitions.

The transmission grid, what most call the national grid. The charges are set in such a way that those furthest from generation pay the most and generation furthest from demand also pays the most. So consumers in SE England tend to pay the most and generators in Scotland also tend to pay the most on the generation side. I believe as the grid moves to more renewable they are currently consulting on the future of how to keep the charges to use the transmission grid fair.

 

[bigmike20vt]

The charges are set in such a way that those furthest from generation pay the most and generation furthest from demand also pays the most.

Is this true? because as i have mentioned before my mate who lives within sight of a large windfarm in the north west pays almost the max SC there is (over 60p) despite it also being fairly near some pretty large areas, its not like he lives in the back end of nowhere.

where as London as i understood it , pays some of the cheapest.

i cant grumble, East Anglia SC is on the cheaper end.

 

[MissChief]

Is this true? because as i have mentioned before my mate who lives within sight of a large windfarm in the north west pays almost the max SC there is (over 60p) despite it also being fairly near some pretty large areas, its not like he lives in the back end of nowhere.

where as London as i understood it , pays some of the cheapest.

i cant grumble, East Anglia SC is on the cheaper end.

Scotland, where more power is generated than England and Wales combined have the highest transmission charges in the UK.

 

[200sols]

Is this true? because as i have mentioned before my mate who lives within sight of a large windfarm in the north west pays almost the max SC there is (over 60p) despite it also being fairly near some pretty large areas, its not like he lives in the back end of nowhere.

where as London as i understood it , pays some of the cheapest.

i cant grumble, East Anglia SC is on the cheaper end.

How do we know charging is fair, and gives value?​

The charging methodology we use produces tariffs that vary by location based on how close a generator is to demand or how close the demand is to generation.
This incentivises generators and demand to be close to each other reducing the need for investment in the transmission system.

The charges for using Great Britain’s electricity system | ESO

All users of the electricity transmission system pay to use it. This brief overview looks at who pays, for what, and how the charges are calculated.

www.nationalgrideso.com

You can read back through pages of this thread to see why the SC is cheaper in some areas.

 

[Kelt]

Octopus giving free electric tomorrow for an hour (1pm-2pm).

Better than a kick up the jacksie I suppose!

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Octopus giving free electric tomorrow for an hour (1pm-2pm).

Better than a kick up the jacksie I suppose!

Bear in mind its in excess of your normal usage.
Eg if you use 300wh in each 30 minute slot normally you would only get the excess usage over 300wh refunded.

I have repurposed the Power ups thread in home and garden to include these sesssions.

Only a few of us used to use it but many more can now in theory receive the free power.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Is this true? because as i have mentioned before my mate who lives within sight of a large windfarm in the north west pays almost the max SC there is (over 60p) despite it also being fairly near some pretty large areas, its not like he lives in the back end of nowhere.

where as London as i understood it , pays some of the cheapest.

i cant grumble, East Anglia SC is on the cheaper end.

Is in on or offshore?
Offshore is connected to the national grid where as on shore is connected to the local grid.

The whole thing is a bloody mess when you look into it. But its a result of legacy nationalisation, and how they handled it all when they sold it all off.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Is in on or offshore?
Offshore is connected to the national grid where as on shore is connected to the local grid.

The whole thing is a bloody mess when you look into it. But its a result of legacy nationalisation, and how they handled it all when they sold it all off.

lol ok no wonder people are confused.... it is onshore.

 

[SDK^]

Bear in mind its in excess of your normal usage.
Eg if you use 300wh in each 30 minute slot normally you would only get the excess usage over 300wh refunded.

I have repurposed the Power ups thread in home and garden to include these sesssions.

Only a few of us used to use it but many more can now in theory receive the free power.

Really doesn’t feel worth the hassle of changing settings on solar, battery and the EV charger, for what will be a saving of about 80p

 

[chrcoluk]

There is iirc a 9 month lock out period for tracker, so you cannot return to it for 9 months.



Its already a postcode lottery as the amount of SC in some parts of the UK compared to others show you.

Just about everything you buy is different prices depending on where you live. Petrol & water for example as two similar items to electricity.

I'm not fussed either way, but do believe that either the SC or the unit cost pricing mechanism should be adjusted to match the other.
Oh, and some absolute clarity and transparency on how the SC is being calculated.

The main reason I am for regional pricing is that it should increase the (or reduce the NIMBY) amount of people willing to have renewables near to them.
More renewables in your region, lower bills.

I dont agree with the SC postcode lottery either so my view is consistent.

Imagine the variance you would have if you localised it based on local renewables, one region would be free or maybe below 5p unit and another would be 40p or so, it would be ridiculous.

I am open to a small local deviance. But if you made it fully linked to costs with the current state of the grid it wouldnt work. Some regions simply due to where they are in the country Nimby's or not are not going to have as much wind. Society nationwide take the good and the rough together.

 

[chrcoluk]

As MKW says above, its already like this for SC and can vary by as much as 30p/day for Elec just because you live in a different part of the country. Gas is pretty much identical UK wide... That's £110/year because of where you live so, for the people that are against regional unit pricing and in that spirit of fairness, lets make the SC equal as well

The fix is to equalise SC. My view has also always been consistent on that.

The variance would be much wider on the unit rate.

 

[chrcoluk]

Just signed up for free hour sessions which first one is today, I might be too late for it though. Curious if these are the local ones only or they national.

 

[Puzzled]

Just signed up for free hour sessions which first one is today, I might be too late for it though. Curious if these are the local ones only or they national.

The octopus one today between 1-2pm is national if you have signed up. Its only your usage above what you normally use that is free though so won't be any real saving unless you load shift.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I’ve signed up but I’m not going to bother. My solar is currently doing 5.5kw and I’m currently being paid 15p/kwh for that and it only costs me to import power over night at 7p

I don’t think I could consume enough electricity to get past the losses from the solar export given I’d normally be paying 7p not 22p.

 

[Stu999]

I’ve signed up but I’m not going to bother. My solar is currently doing 5.5kw and I’m currently being paid 15p/kwh for that and it only costs me to import power over night at 7p

I don’t think I could consume enough electricity to get past the losses from the solar export given I’d normally be paying 7p not 22p.

Do you have a limit on how much you can export per day?

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Do you have a limit on how much you can export per day?

Yes and no. My export limit is 8kw which is the capacity of my solar inverter.

There is no limit on the amount you can export on in a day, you just can’t breach your export limit at any time. So my theoretical maximum is 8kw X 24 hours = 192 kWh. That’s never happening in the real world.