Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[bigmike20vt]

when you weigh up the cost of switching, it's not worth it. Which is why hardly anyone is.

Same with solar panels. It's funny when you see them recommended on EPC certificates. "Spent 5 figures and save a couple of £100 a year!" Err nope.

are you talking about replacing existing solar panels? if so fair enough, probably not worth replacing panels bought in last 5-10 years so long as they are working even tho new ones are better......

but installing them in general is an absolute no brainer if you are not planning on moving any time soon. maybe an 8 year break even point and after that pure profit. even more so if you get them done at the same time as you are reroofing as can make a tidier install and use way less tiles as well.

besides its about more than money..... so long as they cover themselves (which they will) its just a socially responsible thing to do imo if you have the up front capital.

for example my March electricity bill was under £35 inc standing charge. .. and that included charging 2 EVs (of which diesel alone if we had our old cars would have been way over £100)

without EV charging our electicity bill for march would have been zero, possibly even negative.

i wont lie tho.... i *am* jealous of the panels my parents as well as parents in laws have on their houses...... each panel is 80wh more than mine which does not sound a lot but with 20 panels makes the numbers add up a lot!... I wont be replacing mine any time soon however

 

[b0rn2sk8]

save £100 a year?

I’ve got an EV, heat pump heating so no gas or petrol bill. My entire energy/fuel bill for March was -£15.

Yes, they paid me £15.

I consumed 975.55kwh of electricity and I still came out with a negative bill for the month. It was exceptionally sunny in March but even with more normal generation, I would have come out at around £0. My energy bill across the year is also nothing.

Yes I spent a lot of cash upfront but it will pay back in under 8 years and you can get a better system today for a lot less than I paid.

Installing solar panels on your house is a no brainer, even north facing panels have a great ROI these days.

 

[Kill_Phil]

save £100 a year?

I’ve got an EV, heat pump heating so no gas or petrol bill. My entire energy/fuel bill for March was -£15.

Yes, they paid me £15.

I consumed 975.55kwh of electricity and I still came out with a negative bill for the month. It was exceptionally sunny in March but even with more normal generation, I would have come out at around £0. My energy bill across the year is also nothing.

Yes I spent a lot of cash upfront but it will pay back in under 8 years and you can get a better system today for a lot less than I paid.

Installing solar panels on your house is a no brainer, even north facing panels have a great ROI these days.

Aye but a heat pump is a big contributor to the savings? Would take the plunge myself but my Victorian house just is far too efficient - would have to shell out '000s to get it anywhere up to standard

 

[john_smith]

If you drive a lot of miles then an EV can bring astroniomical savings.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Aye but a heat pump is a big contributor to the savings? Would take the plunge myself but my Victorian house just is far too efficient - would have to shell out '000s to get it anywhere up to standard

At price cap prices? Yes but it is not significant, couple of hundred a year for typical use (say 10,000 - 11,000 kwh gas use equivalent).

However, when you only pay 7.07p/kwh which was my average price for importing from the grid in March or 15p/kwh from my solar (the opportunity cost of not exporting it to the grid), yes the savings are significant.

Sure there wasn't much heating being used in March but my average import cost in January and December when there was naff all solar was 9.5-9.8p/kwh so the savings are still significant.

I just calculated by bill for March and it was actually -£25 and not -£15.

 

[Aurhinius]

At price cap prices? Yes but it is not significant, couple of hundred a year for typical use (say 10,000 - 11,000 kwh gas use equivalent).

However, when you only pay 7.07p/kwh which was my average price for importing from the grid in March or 15p/kwh from my solar (the opportunity cost of not exporting it to the grid), yes the savings are significant.

Sure there wasn't much heating being used in March but my average import cost in January and December when there was naff all solar was 9.5-9.8p/kwh so the savings are still significant.

I just calculated by bill for March and it was actually -£25 and not -£15.

Do people with solar also have battery storage? I get the impression now panels are not worth it unless you have a way of storing the excess energy you generate during the day that you don't use? I have a terrace property and I just have nowhere realistically I could put a battery storage unit.

 

[tamzzy]

Solar PV + battery system owner here
Paid £8.3k for my setup
I don't use octopus (I use eon next)
With the solar/battery system, you can use their EV tarriff and charge the home batteries at night, to power the home during the day
Currently receiving 16.5p/kwh selling the excess solar and I charge my batteries fully overnight at 8p/kwh (old rates...now will be lower when I renew)
Saves me about £35/month on my leccy bills compared to pre-solar bills, and my solar exports work out to be approx £450/yr
So, approx £900/yr making a ROI of 9 years...a no brainer if you intend to stay in your home for the long-term, and even if you don't, if it's a semi-decent install should add value to the home when you sell up

If you have an EV, the savings would be even more pronounced
I pay approx £80/mth in petrol, and would be about £20/mth leccy if I did own an EV (if my fag-packet man maths did me right)
That would reduce my ROI to 5 years

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Do people with solar also have battery storage? I get the impression now panels are not worth it unless you have a way of storing the excess energy you generate during the day that you don't use? I have a terrace property and I just have nowhere realistically I could put a battery storage unit.

Yes but I would still advocate for putting as many solar panels on your house as possible in first instance on all elevations including north. Solar adds the largest benefit IMO - its also cheap and scales will with size. You get diminishing returns from adding more battery storage once you have 'enough'.

Battery storage can be reasonably compact these days and contrary to what some people suggest, I don't think you need a lot. 5kwh is about the size of a compact mid-tower PC, 10kwh is ample for most people. You can put it in the loft although it is not advised - mainly due to the weight. Stick it outside like most people do, just mount it to the wall and its fine.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Do people with solar also have battery storage? I get the impression now panels are not worth it unless you have a way of storing the excess energy you generate during the day that you don't use? I have a terrace property and I just have nowhere realistically I could put a battery storage unit.

a battery is an important part of my system but my mate still makes a huge savings with his ground solar system with no battery . my house battery is in the attic. some think this is dodgy and indeed it is possible it will be stopped but for now it's an option if you have limited space and personally am not worried.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

when you weigh up the cost of switching, it's not worth it. Which is why hardly anyone is.

Same with solar panels. It's funny when you see them recommended on EPC certificates. "Spent 5 figures and save a couple of £100 a year!" Err nope.

Usual level of cluelessness / nonsense.

No solar system installed in the last 10 or so years, unless its absolutely tiny is going to save a couple of £100 a year.

Heat pumps aren't majorly a money saver (running costs are broadly equal), yet, compared to gas that saving will come as gas gets comparatively more expensive. Having the green taxes on elec and not gas doesn't help, so fix that for starters.

You can get such good grants now that in a recently modern house with ok insulation it costs the consumer less to have a full heat pump system, water tank the lot, installed for less than a direct gas boiler replacement.

Put down the Dailywail and express they are lying to you, and/or stop watching clickbait youtube videos.

Do people with solar also have battery storage? I get the impression now panels are not worth it unless you have a way of storing the excess energy you generate during the day that you don't use? I have a terrace property and I just have nowhere realistically I could put a battery storage unit.

One of the issues is that its a constantly changing scenario. I have had my solar for 2.5 years and in that time export has gone from 4p to 8p to now 15p
There are various tariffs and again they are improving as opposed to getting worse.

A battery makes sense as it also smooths the generation which in reality is quite spiky.
Personally when I played with numbers on mine I found the sweet spot to be 60-80% battery capacity vs daily demand.
But this is constatly moving as many factors come into play, (unit pricing, system pricing, relative cost of batteries, size of batteries available for the system you want etc)

 

[Hagar]

Rebel, rebel.

Customers 'protected' as household energy supplier exits market

Rebel Energy, which had been the subject of a provisional compliance order last month, has given no reason for its decision to "cease trading".

news.sky.com

One down, any more to follow. A mere 80,000 subscribers but that is what standing charges are for, yes?

 

[200sols]

You can get such good grants now that in a recently modern house with ok insulation it costs the consumer less to have a full heat pump system, water tank the lot, installed for less than a direct gas boiler replacement.

Well those homes should have had heat pumps installed to start with. Now Octopus are not selling at a loss anymore the days of the £100 quote are over. For most people a heat pump is a lot more expensive than a direct gas boiler swap out.

Average time in the UK at least to recoup costs for paying for solar panels is 10-15 years, so it's a little more than "a couple of £100 a year".

But even at 10-15 years, I'd ask if you're going to save, say 500£/year (average time/average cost), why wouldn't you?

Its not that long anymore. Solar and battery prices have fallen a lot in the last 2 years. My ROI is going to be about 6-7 years and I installed when solar prices were higher than they are now.

 

[200sols]

Rebel, rebel.

Customers 'protected' as household energy supplier exits market

Rebel Energy, which had been the subject of a provisional compliance order last month, has given no reason for its decision to "cease trading".

news.sky.com

One down, any more to follow. A mere 80,000 subscribers but that is what standing charges are for, yes?

Tomato next

 

[platypus]

Well those homes should have had heat pumps installed to start with. Now Octopus are not selling at a loss anymore the days of the £100 quote are over. For most people a heat pump is a lot more expensive than a direct gas boiler swap out.


Its not that long anymore. Solar and battery prices have fallen a lot in the last 2 years. My ROI is going to be about 6-7 years and I installed when solar prices were higher than they are now.

Disny realise it had come down that quickly. Great!

If you drive a lot of miles then an EV can bring astroniomical savings.

Indeed, we save around 400£/month on fuel for the wife’s commute and the EV tariff has brought our overall electricity costs down.

Honestly, if you’ve roof space and own there’s no reason not too anymore. Just feels like “green crap” types.

 

[Nasher]

save £100 a year?

I’ve got an EV, heat pump heating so no gas or petrol bill. My entire energy/fuel bill for March was -£15.

Yes, they paid me £15.

I consumed 975.55kwh of electricity and I still came out with a negative bill for the month. It was exceptionally sunny in March but even with more normal generation, I would have come out at around £0. My energy bill across the year is also nothing.

Yes I spent a lot of cash upfront but it will pay back in under 8 years and you can get a better system today for a lot less than I paid.

Installing solar panels on your house is a no brainer, even north facing panels have a great ROI these days.

That's great if you plan on staying in the same house for a long time.

Also how much are you losing per month on owning an EV... (lease, depreciation, etc). That alone is probably more than I'm paying to run my diesel commuter, plus my energy bill.

 

[platypus]

That's great if you plan on staying in the same house for a long time. Also how much are you losing per month on owning an EV... (lease, depreciation, etc). Probably more than I'm paying to run my diesel commuter, plus my energy bill.

Highly unlikely. Our business leases a Peugeot 2008 gt for 199£/pcm. We charge it at 6.9p/kWh. We no longer spend 400£/pcm on diesel.

I understand you hate “green crap” and net zero is a scam, etc, but I fear you’re wrong on this, and I’d question why you’re deluding yourself?

 

[200sols]

Nasher should just admit he's wrong about solar and then move the EV talk to the EV thread

 

[Nasher]

Highly unlikely. Our business leases a Peugeot 2008 gt for 199£/pcm. We charge it at 6.9p/kWh. We no longer spend 400£/pcm on diesel.

I understand you hate “green crap” and net zero is a scam, etc, but I fear you’re wrong on this, and I’d question why you’re deluding yourself?

The answer is yes then lol

My energy bill is about £90 (fixed deal), fuel maybe £100, car tax £35 a year (still). Depreciation 0

Leasing a new car is such a waste of money.

 

[platypus]

The answer is yes then lol

My energy bill is about £90 (fixed deal), fuel maybe £100, car tax £35 a year (still). Depreciation 0

Ok then we’re close but you are coming out lower than us, for a family of…?

And which car doesn’t depreciate in value? Not that the depreciation matters to us.

This is a solar panel question though no? The EV question is for a different thread but I’d say it’s an added benefit.

 

[Nasher]

Ok then we’re close but you are coming out lower than us, for a family of…?

And which car doesn’t depreciate in value? Not that the depreciation matters to us.

This is a solar panel question though no? The EV question is for a different thread but I’d say it’s an added benefit.

Only 2 people. But it was just an example of how the government'a green policy isn't working and most aren't buying in to it. They won't until it's cheaper but it just isn't.