Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

Wow, what a long thread.

I wonder how many people complaining have debts, stuff on finance, a car they probably don't need, and buy **** coffee every morning at £2 a cup.
I have no debt (unless you count mortgage), nothing on finance, I need my car to get to work (public transport is just not a feasible or reliable option) and I don't drink coffee. For me I'm going to be fine this time with the increases although I will have very little disposable income left at the end of the month compared to usual. Come August however it's going to be an issue and I'm not sure where that's going to come from (no subscriptions, no sky, no expensive food)

Its all well and good telling people to use public transport instead of cars, but it just doesn't work. I'm not waiting around in the rain cold outside for 20min+ for a bus that takes 40min+ to get to my workplace compared to about 10-15min in a warm car. The amount of wasted time and misery public transport causes is not worth it. From an environmental point of view, yes sure, its not great but without significant inconvenience and lost time it cannot be helped.
 
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I have no debt (unless you count mortgage), nothing on finance, I need my car to get to work (public transport is just not a feasible or reliable option) and I don't drink coffee. For me I'm going to be fine this time with the increases although I will have very little disposable income left at the end of the month compared to usual. Come August however it's going to be an issue and I'm not sure where that's going to come from (no subscriptions, no sky, no expensive food)

Its all well and good telling people to use public transport instead of cars, but it just doesn't work. I'm not waiting around in the rain cold outside for 20min+ for a bus that takes 40min+ to get to my workplace compared to about 10-15min in a warm car. The amount of wasted time and misery public transport causes is not worth it. From an environmental point of view, yes sure, its not great but without significant inconvenience and lost time it cannot be helped.

I know right. This would be my daily train charge. Plus I need a taxi from Gloucester to Office and back. And I'd need to bus or cycle from home to banbury train!

Maybe I'll let him pay the £2k a month travel then ;)

vypdgTB.jpg

Also a season ticket is £8.5k in more realistic look but that £750 a month. The car I could get paying that!!
 
I know right. This would be my daily train charge. Plus I need a taxi from Gloucester to Office and back. And I'd need to bus or cycle from home to banbury train!

Maybe I'll let him pay the £2k a month travel then ;)
Also a season ticket is £8.5k in more realistic look but that £750 a month. The car I could get paying that!!
Such a long commute and so expensive!
I only travel 5miles to work and then back (taking the short route in the car 10-15min), 5 times a week so around 200+ miles per month, barely £40-50 a month in fuel costs. Compared to the bus which would take about 1hour+ including waiting around for an unreliable service and having to hope the bus is not full would be about £20 a week.
 
Aye. It's 1h25m drive, no change over, £14 in fuel a day otherwise. So yeah I think I'll stick with a car that is more flexible and needed for the children etc. Some people are so short sighted and that hey.
How about we car share? I'll come down to Banbury from up north, its only a 4 hour drive. It would get your filthy car of the road at least!
There will be hell on if you are not waiting outside while I act as a chauffeur.
 
Seen a graph on the BBC website which looks grim, compared to the early 2000s we producing around 30% less power ourselves, the vast majority of that drop is coal stations shutting down wih no replacement, the renewables have increased a tiny bit compared to the loss of coal power, the rest of the loss is on nuclear.

I expect coal isnt making a comeback as the environmentalists would have a field day, but that loss needs replacing with nuclear, as well as a serious ramp up on renewables probably onshore wind turbines, solar and hydro power, we have almost the most powerful tides in the world and are barely using them. as the renewables we do have seems at a joke level if they were ever intended to be our future.
 
Well British Gas finally delivered the new direct debit charges. Gone from £100 per month to £144 per month. Standard variable tarif. Not as frightening as I thought. Boiler will go to hot water only from mid May till end of October as the house very rarely drops below 18 Celsius even on the coldest days.
In summer if it’s 20 Celsius outside it can be 25-37 Celsius inside.
 
Seen a graph on the BBC website which looks grim, compared to the early 2000s we producing around 30% less power ourselves, the vast majority of that drop is coal stations shutting down wih no replacement, the renewables have increased a tiny bit compared to the loss of coal power, the rest of the loss is on nuclear.

I expect coal isnt making a comeback as the environmentalists would have a field day, but that loss needs replacing with nuclear, as well as a serious ramp up on renewables probably onshore wind turbines, solar and hydro power, we have almost the most powerful tides in the world and are barely using them. as the renewables we do have seems at a joke level if they were ever intended to be our future.

We're already on the knife edge with the levels of renewables we have now. If it wasn't for France propping up our grid (at a price, of course), we'd already have serious instability issues. This is public knowledge for anyone who wants it - the data from the national grid is published. It's available online too. The underlying issue is unsolvable - we can't control renewables and we can't store anywhere near sufficient excess to load balance that way. Also, we can't build enough of an over-capacity to generate enough excess anyway, but that part of the problem is at least theoretically solvable. Theoretically. If you ignore the cost and environmental impact.

We do have some powerful tides, but they're not constant 24/7, many of the best spots are in major shipping lanes and the plausible generation is nothing like the theoretical generation. For example, Pentland Firth theoretically has a peak generating capacity of 20GW when the tides are right. In reality it might be possible to generate 1GW there sometimes.

In general (not you specifically) there are far too many people ignoring the problems with renewables in their devout pretence that renewables are a cure-all. In most cases, people are even going as far as quoting nameplate generating capacity of renewables as if it was true! It's not even meaningful. The average generating capability is about 30% of nameplate for wind and about 20% for solar, but even that's not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that it's unreliable, uncontrollable and only somewhat predictable. You can't run a functional grid on that. When you see talk of, for example, a wind farm generating 1GW the actual generation from that wind farm will vary from second to second from nothing to maybe 600KW and will average about 300KW. But it's the uncontrollable variation that's the biggest problem, not the average.

It might be possible to seriously ramp up the percentage of generation from renewables at some point in the future, using as yet unknown technology. But it's not possible now and we need something now. And tomorrow and next week and next year. We can't pause the game and have the tech tree researched while it's on pause. Not even if the rather odd hypothesis is correct and we are living in a simulation.

We can't go too high percentage-wise with nuclear either because that's not variable enough quickly enough for that. Not fission, anyway. Maybe with fusion, but that's not a viable solution in the present and won't be for a while if ever.

Add in the proposed 600% increase in electricity usage (needed to replace burning fossil fuels with electricity) and it looks even worse. There isn't a solution. There is no viable replacement for burning fossil fuel. "Green" hydrogen isn't it - all that does is massively increase the demand for electricity because it's just a very inefficient way of transporting energy. "blue" hydrogen isn't it either - that wastes a lot of energy too (though nowhere near as much as "green" hydrogen) and it's only possible as a by-product of the fossil fuel industry anyway. Ethanol isn't it - it blights the environment, ruins peoples lives and is barely less polluting than burning fossil fuels. Maybe researchers will make a solution. Maybe in time. Maybe not. But it sure as hell won't come from people simply proclaiming that renewables are already the solution.

What we could use right now is a time machine and starting serious work on the solution ~30 years ago when it should have started. Without that (and that's not going to happen, obviously), we're going to continue burning fuels while scrambling for new technology to create a viable solution. We have no other choice.
 
In general (not you specifically) there are far too many people ignoring the problems with renewables in their devout pretence that renewables are a cure-all. In most cases, people are even going as far as quoting nameplate generating capacity of renewables as if it was true! It's not even meaningful. The average generating capability is about 30% of nameplate for wind and about 20% for solar, but even that's not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that it's unreliable, uncontrollable and only somewhat predictable. You can't run a functional grid on that. When you see talk of, for example, a wind farm generating 1GW the actual generation from that wind farm will vary from second to second from nothing to maybe 600KW and will average about 300KW. But it's the uncontrollable variation that's the biggest problem, not the average.

The time shifted theoretical amount of power which can be generated vs demand/availability of the output seems something some people are hell bent on ignoring when pushing their agenda. Either they don't care and/or have an unrealistic expectation that if we just go down that road hard committed enough the solution will happen.

There is no telling them otherwise - their minds are closed off.
 
I expect we can probably go higher on nuclear than where we are now, as we at a very low compared to historically and compared to france. Seems we just in the crap big time, what a mess, complete lack of forward planning from successive governments who cant think past the next election.
 
I know right. This would be my daily train charge. Plus I need a taxi from Gloucester to Office and back. And I'd need to bus or cycle from home to banbury train!

Maybe I'll let him pay the £2k a month travel then ;)

vypdgTB.jpg

Also a season ticket is £8.5k in more realistic look but that £750 a month. The car I could get paying that!!

To get to work on public transport for me I'd actually have to leave yesterday to get to work today and it would take 2 hours each way.
In the car it's 30 minutes.
 
We have a choice.
1, economic collapse massive recession
2, bring back coal and bump global emissions slightly.

Choose one
Tbh I'm not sure our little island would even register a change for option 2. She we can't cut the power going to peoples houses that only want green to simulate its variability. Nuclear does seem like the obvious solution.
 
The real "but China" is the answer to why our energy demands have reduced over the last 20 years. True there is significant waste reduction and efficiency improvements but like much of the Western World we have outsourced our industrial capacity East with Chna picking up the lions share. Very few heavy industrial cast components are made in Western Europe anymore for instance and when they are it's the top draw highest added value added ones. That work has gone to the easter most reaches of Europe but mostly to China. The growth in steel demand has been universal but little of the additional productions has been taking place in the West "but China".

We've been outsourcing much of our fossil fuel usage these last 20 years.

As to the general energy situation I genuinely think if we had a national monopoly generation supplier or maybe duopoly we would be in a much better situation. The balkanised industry pivots in the wind of political announcements too quickly and the strategic management through swim lane-d contracts and subsidies has has inefficient and frankly puzzling outcomes. Since privatisation Labour made a mess of it and the Conservatives have carried on making a mess of it.
 
To get to work on public transport for me I'd actually have to leave yesterday to get to work today and it would take 2 hours each way.
In the car it's 30 minutes.

Haha, I hadn't factored in I would be an hour late to get in so to actually be on time I would also need to get the train the day before to get to work in morning on time which means technically I would travel Sunday and get hotel for the week and then travel Friday home. So that is £370 a week in hotel with the £8.5k required annual train ticket then pushing me up to £2.2k a month then. Yeah okay, good work public transport.
 
Wow, what a long thread.

I wonder how many people complaining have debts, stuff on finance, a car they probably don't need, and buy **** coffee every morning at £2 a cup.

Must be a troll, however i have to question what you are using to type? PC or Phone because aren't they made of plastics ect.. that burn fossil fuels (Eco Warrior spouting that cars are bad but yet has tv's, computers electronics that cause fossil fuels is what i call a hypocrite).

But more to your point about cars the issue is that people cannot afford to use public transport so they have no choice and secondly doesn't Busses use more pollution? also with people on the bread line they cannot afford to get to work with addition to the fuel crisis. Yes i buy a coffee and we pay our bills on time, however i feel for people who cannot afford food on the table and having to choose between heating their household or struggling.

I think October will be a worry including myself our Gas and Electric estimated bill is £2900! i hate to think what it will be in October.
 
I think October will be a worry including myself our Gas and Electric estimated bill is £2900! i hate to think what it will be in October.

Mine at the moment is ~4.5k. And thats with stopping charging the PHEV at home, and being totally anal about the thermostat temp. Sods law that the increases have coincided with cold sodding weather.
 
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