Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

Zenduri said:
No offence or anything but can you clarify your first comment as ive tried reading it 3-4 times and im not quite following it? Are you are talking about why dont we have it so everyones on smart meters and we charges higher users more but less standing charges and lower uses less but higher standing charge? If thats the case, then for large business who are often on bespoke tarrifs they often have eitherstupidly high standing charge or zero. Think the highest business standing charge i've seen was about £12 a day but the unit price was really low like 2.2p or something unit cos on the gas but they were a huge factory.
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a worked example, posted way back > so a normal 3100K user pays 31.4p/unit all in, but a low 4 units a day client 37p ... ie 20% more.


jpaul said:
@chrcoluk - yes - working an example
Nil kWh m (3,100kWh)
North West £146.84 £974.11

so if you use 3100, the 8.5 units a day are, everything included, costing 31.4p each
if you only use 4 units a day the cost should be 4*31.4 = 125.6
but if you are being charged - ripped off at (146.84/365) 40p/day standing and (974.11-146.84 / 3100) 26.6p/unit the daily cost with 4 units will be 147

so the supplier should be charging a low use tarif of (125.6-40)/4 = 21.25p unit, with 40p standing which would give you same overall cost/unit.

Lewis is disingenous in this respect.
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jpaul said:
a worked example, posted way back > so a normal 3100K user pays 31.4p/unit all in, but a low 4 units a day client 37p ... ie 20% more.
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I think i understand a little

So are you saying if you are a low user at say 8.5 units a day then you have get charged a rate which is per unit higher but no standing charge for those 8.5 units? Also for anyone using more than 8.5 units per day they get charged the standing charge but a cheaper unit price? So in theory it works out cheaper for the lower user as long as they stay under the threshold?
 
It seems likely that over the next 3-5 years, we are about to unwind decades of growth in standards of living. Hopefully not back to 1960's or 1970's levels but we are now in somewhat uncharted territory, so it would not surprise me if we went back to a time when many things were taken for granted will be viewed as luxuries.

This is not a 12 month blip... even if inflation peaks at 10-12% (which I doubt)... it is not returning to 2% or less anytime soon.

Buckle up. This will be bumpy...
 
Energize said:
The £200 loan is absurd when the cap next year is projected to be only 14% lower than this October's price cap.
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The whole £200 loan and the £150 council tax rebate is basically the gov doing the bare minimum so it looks like they have done something but in reality it does nothing. Personally I dont want the bloody £200 loan but you cant opt out either so go we're all stuck with it.

Regarding the £150 rebate.... thats going on a pc case lol
 
Bouton Aide said:
and here.... is the problem.
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Well it's bloody stupid to give people free money they dont have to pay back and expect them to use it on cost of living. Obviously a large portion of people will splurge it away! It should have been sent to the energy supplier like the warm home discount so it gets spent on what its intended for.

I know my comment is part of the problem but at the end of the day the gov has ****** me over the years so i have no guilt.
 
Richie said:
You're taking a news report and coming to a  possible conclusion then posting that it will definitely happen.

The energy companies are saying to OFGEM to bear this in mind when working out the October cap price. The price cap hasn't been set yet so it's one potential outcome but certainly not set in stone as you suggest

The last thing anyone really wants is any more companies going bust as this will just add more to everyone's standing charge to bail out people's credit balances when moved to another provider.
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The energy companies are coming out with reasonably sensible statements I think although I am aware they also trying to protect themselves.

What they want is significantly increased government intervention on bills, up to a £1000 given to at least 10 million people, reduced levies, and to make sure the cap is not set too low.

Thats certainly a better plan than what the government has announced providing their position on the cap doesnt cancel out the £1000.

Of course the government will look for any solution that means they dont have to put any money in to satisfy their paymasters.

It is also worth pointing out that the new warm home discount which has some horrible flaws which will leave many poor people without help, was meekly accepted by all the charities in the public consultation and it was only the energy companies that tried to increase the help provided to proper levels, e.g. pointing out singletons are their most vulnerable customers, pointing out health equipment and energy efficiency of property is ignored and finally that delegating the ability to award discretional WHD on unadvertised entities (I assume councils as usual) is stupid instead of the energy companies doing it themselves, the energy companies themselves have been administrating WHD for years without problems. My council e.g. has got to the point it almost has no phone service now, their covid fund help service was made exclusively only available to council house tenants on the council house support line. Thats the kind of crap that happens when you delegate things to councils.
 
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chrcoluk said:
The energy companies are coming out with reasonably sensible statements I think although I am aware they also trying to protect themselves.

What they want is significantly increased government intervention on bills, up to a £1000 given to at least 10 million people, reduced levies, and to make sure the cap is not set too low.

Thats certainly a better plan than what the government has announced providing their position on the cap doesnt cancel out the £1000.

Of course the government will look for any solution that means they dont have to put any money in to satisfy their paymasters.

It is also worth pointing out that the new warm home discount which has some horrible flaws which will leave many poor people without help, was meekly accepted by all the charities in the public consultation and it was only the energy companies that tried to increase the help provided to proper levels, e.g. pointing out singletons are their most vulnerable customers, pointing out health equipment and energy efficiency of property is ignored and finally that delegating the ability to award discretional WHD on unadvertised entities (I assume councils as usual) is stupid instead of the energy companies doing it themselves, the energy companies themselves have been administrating WHD for years without problems. My council e.g. has got to the point it almost has no phone service now, their covid fund help service was made exclusively only available to council house tenants on the council house support line. Thats the kind of crap that happens when you delegate things to councils.
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TBF this whole post is pretty on point.

For me i would make a few regulatory and governance changes for energy suppliers. As i've stated before the larger suppliers are buying upto a year in advance due to regulation however they dont get the chance to benefit from buying day or monthly spot prices. The current situation is a perfect example where due to world events they were having to buy gas and elec at the highest prices its ever been to supply this for this winter and beyond however because the prices have now dropped again on the wholesale market they are stuck with overpriced gas and elec which they now need to sell at least at a breakeven to operate. This means prices for the next year plus are stupidly insane to accomodate this.

If the regulation was changed so that for example they had to buy 70% 12 months in advance but can also buy spot prices when the price dips low then it would mean the overall cost would eased on the higher priced gas for example.

Ofgem is a farce too and the 6 monthly reviews need to be bi-monthly or quarterly so the energy market can react. Ofgem often sit on their hands so about time they earn their keep
 
Zenduri said:
TBF this whole post is pretty on point.

For me i would make a few regulatory and governance changes for energy suppliers. As i've stated before the larger suppliers are buying upto a year in advance due to regulation however they dont get the chance to benefit from buying day or monthly spot prices. The current situation is a perfect example where due to world events they were having to buy gas and elec at the highest prices its ever been to supply this for this winter and beyond however because the prices have now dropped again on the wholesale market they are stuck with overpriced gas and elec which they now need to sell at least at a breakeven to operate. This means prices for the next year plus are stupidly insane to accomodate this.

If the regulation was changed so that for example they had to buy 70% 12 months in advance but can also buy spot prices when the price dips low then it would mean the overall cost would eased on the higher priced gas for example.

Ofgem is a farce too and the 6 monthly reviews need to be bi-monthly or quarterly so the energy market can react. Ofgem often sit on their hands so about time they earn their keep
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The other option is for the government to drop VAT. Far easier to do and helps everyone equally without a bureaucratic mess.
 
PikeyPriest said:
The other option is for the government to drop VAT. Far easier to do and helps everyone equally without a bureaucratic mess.
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It doesn't help people equally really though. Above a certain income people can afford these increases, the lowest involves even no VAT won't help all that much.

So far I have managed to keep my energy bills below £120 a month.
Only me working now the wife is better off on Universal Credit now so won't be going back to work.
 
chrcoluk said:
The energy companies are coming out with reasonably sensible statements I think although I am aware they also trying to protect themselves.

What they want is significantly increased government intervention on bills, up to a £1000 given to at least 10 million people, reduced levies, and to make sure the cap is not set too low.
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You are changing the equation - it will artificially erode competition, prices won't fall as much as they should because the government is bolstering prices. The government should intervene at the "wholesale layer" not by the time it hits retail. People can then vote with their feet, rather than thinking "ah sod it, I've got a £1k buffer anyway".
 
competition - it's a veneer - the government is already underwriting private investment on generation strike prices/cfd's , so the tax payer is on the hook for the wind power surplus, nuclear. The ofgem process for cap setting is equally allowing them to incorporate a reasonable rate of return/profits in those bids, which is another market control.
I think the privatisation experiment is over.

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short term the practicality/criteria to identify those for the £1000 benefit seems unaddressed too - I'd go for a system where low volume users have cheaper units, maybe, throwing the property tax band in the recipe too.
 
dLockers said:
You are changing the equation - it will artificially erode competition, prices won't fall as much as they should because the government is bolstering prices. The government should intervene at the "wholesale layer" not by the time it hits retail. People can then vote with their feet, rather than thinking "ah sod it, I've got a £1k buffer anyway".
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Can vote with their feet?

I can pick provider A at the ofgem cap or provider B at the ofgem cap.

Fake retail competition doesnt do much when they all using the same expensive wholesale supply and paying the same excessive levies. There is no competition just different salesmen selling the same thing.
 
jpaul said:
competition - it's a veneer - the government is already underwriting private investment on generation strike prices/cfd's , so the tax payer is on the hook for the wind power surplus, nuclear. The ofgem process for cap setting is equally allowing them to incorporate a reasonable rate of return/profits in those bids, which is another market control.
I think the privatisation experiment is over.

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short term the practicality/criteria to identify those for the £1000 benefit seems unaddressed too - I'd go for a system where low volume users have cheaper units, maybe, throwing the property tax band in the recipe too.
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Yes, I hate this type of thing, "lets privatise profits but socialise losses."
 
chrcoluk said:
Yes, I hate this type of thing, "lets privatise profits but socialise losses."
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Welcome to a society where big business runs the show. Its a system that incentivises dangerous practices to extract the maximum amount of money from customers and businesses into the pockets of the owners, shareholders and high ups. Get too big to fair, thats OK because the business either fails and you have your money or it gets bailed out by the average joe you have been ripping off for years. Good times.
 
Can we see how much money uk tax payer has pumped into the wind farm producers to satisfy the strike price
nobody expected the spanish drop in battery/solar/wind prices

Californian chart on strike prices.

52065988684_8443323724_o_d.jpg
 
I have been lucky enough to still be fixed until July (For the past 16 months). To help going forward and after a lot of thought, I am going down the home battery storage solution to charge and fill with off peak rates over night (7.5p pkw) and to run the house of the battery's in the peak rate times. Its with a long term view. Has anyone else done or looked at going down this path?
 
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