Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Again, I am far from convinced that for many people variable DD is a better mechanism. I remember when this was the norm and people complained over and over about the much larger winter bills.
IMO it should be offered as both with no emphasis on either, with a short explanation that neither would be more expensive than the other, but one would be relatively fixed and the other potentially highly variable depending on the time of year.

IMO again, those paying in arrears should pay slightly more than those paying as they go to all intents and purposes.
Or, making credit balances be paid at least a notional return (say 50% of UK base rate) on in credit balances may help to put off the disparity on those providing liquidity vs those reducing it.
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I never proposed fixed DD goes away so would have no issue with it been offered.

But I do take issue that they both equal cost. Fixed DD you pay in advance so you out of pocket, and in addition its algorithms are not perfect leading to some customers been in credit for long periods, even over winter, my theory as to why that happens to some people is maybe the algorithms assume the winter bill will be much higher and for those it isnt, they end up over paying, there is also the potential some suppliers are deliberately making it too high to build cashflow (which is currently been investigated by ofgem and ministers). I know e.g. my winter bill is barely any higher than my summer bills which I think throws the fixed DD algorithm completely off. I do think it would need to be part of the explanation that fixed DD you may end up paying more, but smooths the adjustments made to payments in colder months.

Bear in mind fixed DD does not assure DD's dont change, I am still on fixed DD and it changes daily the amount, plus as we know it changes when SVR cap changes. If we keep telling peopled fixed DD is actually fixed they going to be in for a shock this October, then the January after and so on (as from October SVR is changing every 3 months).
 
Simon0001 said:
Well that 13 pound is 2 people. 2 plasma tvs. Lots of oven cooking.
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£15 a week average, 3 adults, 2 TVs, surround sound, pond with filter running 24/7, 2 children for 2 nights/3 days at weekend full time with then average 3 PC's running at weekend. But everything gets switched off at wall when at work and minimise the costs otherwise as much as possible.
 
chrcoluk said:
But I do take issue that they both equal cost. Fixed DD you pay in advance so you out of pocket
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It depends when you join the supplier. If you join in the run up to winter, your account balance will be negative until you even out over the summer and if you join in the summer your balance will build up until the winter peaks.

chrcoluk said:
my winter bill is barely any higher than my summer bills
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So if your usage is the same every month why are you so determined that variable billing is the default when it'll make no difference at all to you?

The "algorithm" isn't complex if you know how much you use over a year. You just divide your total usage cost by 12. You don't need to worry about calculating differences between summer and winter use.
 
touch said:
It depends when you join the supplier. If you join in the run up to winter, your account balance will be negative until you even out over the summer and if you join in the summer your balance will build up until the winter peaks.


So if your usage is the same every month why are you so determined that variable billing is the default when it'll make no difference at all to you?

The "algorithm" isn't complex if you know how much you use over a year. You just divide your total usage cost by 12. You don't need to worry about calculating differences between summer and winter use.
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It will make a massive difference to me, fixed DD assumes I will use much more in winter so I end up with a very high credit balance, at one point late last year I had over a £1000 in credit, and was £900 in credit in December.

I will be changing to variable after an issue is resolved probably before start of June.

It clearly doesnt just divide the previous year total by 12 otherwise we wouldnt have people overpaying by so much. We have had people in this very thread been quoted an annual cost, and then with a DD set much higher. The companies are currently been investigated for it. Also it isnt actually fixed either, the amount constantly gets adjusted after every reading. So there is an algorithm at play. Part of the confusion is people actually think its fixed when its not.
 
chrcoluk said:
I never proposed fixed DD goes away so would have no issue with it been offered.

But I do take issue that they both equal cost. Fixed DD you pay in advance so you out of pocket, and in addition its algorithms are not perfect leading to some customers been in credit for long periods, even over winter, my theory as to why that happens to some people is maybe the algorithms assume the winter bill will be much higher and for those it isnt, they end up over paying, there is also the potential some suppliers are deliberately making it too high to build cashflow (which is currently been investigated by ofgem and ministers). I know e.g. my winter bill is barely any higher than my summer bills which I think throws the fixed DD algorithm completely off. I do think it would need to be part of the explanation that fixed DD you may end up paying more, but smooths the adjustments made to payments in colder months.

Bear in mind fixed DD does not assure DD's dont change, I am still on fixed DD and it changes daily the amount, plus as we know it changes when SVR cap changes. If we keep telling peopled fixed DD is actually fixed they going to be in for a shock this October, then the January after and so on (as from October SVR is changing every 3 months).
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Thing is they don't call it fixed (BG just call it monthly no sign of "fixed"), its why I referred to it as relatively fixed since its fixed within certain parameters. Changing supplier hurts those for example as you have no history, so if you sign up with expected usage of say £1000 a year, they will apply a normal model and expect yoru June to be say £60, if its £120 then they will likely adjust as your either very unusual in your energy usage, or your initial £1000 estimate was probably very wrong. Plenty these forums show no real appreciation of what they are using, with post after post saying stuff like I paid £60 now they want £200 cant be correct right....!!!11!
For most people their winter bill is quite a lot higher, far more heating, far more lights on, more cooked meals etc.
I think the problem is people think its fixed when the unit price is fixed, there is only so much you can do to help dumb ;) The "price cap" for example being horrible terminology that confuses people who don't pay attention or assume.
People refer to it as fixed but thats people. If you actually read the sites they DO tell you that its predictive and its spreading the cost so that you are smoothing the payments across the months when for most its low and the months for most when its high.
In fact BG have videos about the DD amount how it can change and why.

You rarely (apart from this forum it seems) hear people complain about the shock "big bill" now that used to be very common, people tend to complain about energy prices in general. As I have said before the movement to "fixed" was actually part of the energy market opening up and competition, the old big companies followed suit to the new ones that gave that option. In the old days you paid it when the bill arrived within 14 days. No ifs no buts, the bill was the bill.

Mine is targeted to be zero at iirc March. BG told me when as they said thats when the meters are read in my area. I have never had that before but its a logical thing. I am guessing if I moved my 12 month fix to start October next time I do it in effect I would be using more than I paid right up until spring when I would be quite behind.
I suspect they would try to put that up in advance as "worried" but in theory thats how it works.

I suspect many seeing significant jumps and OMG they ripping me off type comments are just not up to speed with reality.

I have said before, paying in arrears means someone is financing your energy short term, its either shareholders (unlikely), the people selling the energy (again unlikely especially for international supplies), or other consumers.

I don't know if the companies are already factoring in the expected rises come autumn, in theory if they were trying to be accurate they would be.
I don't think any publish any info really.
I do know as I almost went to work for one of them many years ago that they took on a lot of people like me (I was a systems accountant at that time, ie a finance professional with high IT skills) so they recruit a lot of people able to work on the numbers side of it. Although I suspect like in many businesses the commercial side will overrule what should happen ;)
 
Family of 2 adults and 2 teenagers, games consoles, TVs, couple of RPi, laptops, router, fridge freezer. Just under £15 this week +£3.36 standing charge just for electricity on SVR.

2kwh of gas, still in a fix. we've used 6.4p ;) + standing charge. I think we are in for a shock with the gas come winter.

EDIT: I've an imperial gas meter so it's not 2kwh but 2 "units" which some funky formula is then used to work out the kwh. But it shouldn't be a lot. Maybe not 6.4p though. ;)
 
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Remember that oil is bought in $US. The exchange rate is now £1/$1.23. The last time I was in USA, the exchange rate was £1/$1.95 - that was 14 years ago!
 
Mercurial said:
EDIT: I've an imperial gas meter so it's not 2kwh but 2 "units" which some funky formula is then used to work out the kwh. But it shouldn't be a lot. Maybe not 6.4p though. ;)
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To get my kwh meter reading to units I usually divide it by around 10.9 to get pretty close, so the opposite should be true I think. Units * 10.9 = rough kwh usage of gas.

kwh formula is weird though and can vary a bit by region I think, even stuff like air pressure can change it by region, so that 10.9 is rough but would not be far off actual afaik.

My total energy bill actual usage from 14/04 - 13/05 is as follows:

Electric
580 kwh (19.3 kwh per day avg)
£169.58 of which £12.40 is standing charge

Gas
179 kwh (6 kwh per day avg)
£20.27 of which £7.52 is standing charge

Total
£189.85 pre VAT
£199.34 with 5% VAT (£6.64 per day avg)
 
Formula from my gas supplier is a little more complicated and indeed adjusts for temperature and pressure!

Units Consumed (100s of Cubic Feet)
x Metric Conversion (convert to cubic metres)
x Volume Correction (for temperature and pressure)
x Calorific Value (energy in each m3 of gas)
÷ 3.6 (convert from joules)
= Usage (in kWh)
This month: 46 x 2.83 x 1.02264 x 39.4 ÷ 3.6 = 1457.0 (March to April 2022)

I'm fixed for gas until the end of July, just in time for the colder weather a couple of months afterward.
 
I'm very heavy on electric usage but my gas usage isn't usually too bad, although I always use some as I have a combi boiler even when not heating.

Can't wait to see what solar does for my electric bills though!
 
@HungryHippos Considering solar myself; though our electrical usage (even with what I listed above (and things i've missed out like switches/Alexa/Ctek chargers etc) is only 238kwh for a similar period as you listed (10/04/2022-14/05/2022), and only varies slightly with lighting (all LED) and the central heating pump in Wintertime, so the ROI would be therefore longer, and my kids are at the age where in a few years they may be living away at least part of the year which would reduce use (and increase the ROI period).

EDIT - Included dates covered for electricity usage.
 
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LabR@t said:
Pay back in panels is still years isn't it?
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Yes but the rate of increase to electric cost it will be less years potentially. Obviously not a cheap thing to add but one goal is to reduce monthly bills a little and give me extra juice to run my air conditioning on in the summer.

Simon0001 said:
I've turned my combi boiler off and only put it on to do the days washing up at night.
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What about showers and things? I still need it for hot water on demand and cold showers doesn't sound tempting enough!

I'm not really using it for heating at the moment due to improved weather.

Mercurial said:
@HungryHippos Considering solar myself; though our electrical usage (even with what I listed above (and things i've missed out like switches/Alexa/Ctek chargers etc) is only 238kwh for a similar period as you listed (10/04/2022-14/05/2022), and only varies slightly with lighting (all LED) and the central heating pump in Wintertime, so the ROI would be therefore longer, and my kids are at the age where in a few years they may be living away at least part of the year which would reduce use (and increase the ROI period).

EDIT - Included dates covered for electricity usage.
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Hmm definitely better if you can use more of it, you're still on the hook for standing charges no matter what unless you go off grid. I'm pairing mine with a battery so I don't need to try and rush to use it during the day when generation is highest.

Payback for SEG is minimal so you want to use as many units as you can based on generation.
 
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