Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I think the point in "messing with it" is that for some reason your routine may change so you may need to override it to just charge now etc.
Eg say your leaving home at 3am to go on holiday, so you just force charge it from 9pm rather than using your normal schedule you store, eg have my car ready for 7am

I still think its inevitable its going to happen.

The simplest way to motivate people is through their pockets. It just happens this will also trigger behaviour that is highly beneficial when considering variability of renewables with their low cost but less certain generation.
The other thing you notice if you look at the grid semi regularly is that Sundays there is a notable drop in consumption, so there should be lower cost units then, and for all those who work 9-5 M-F it would seem the perfect time to do the washing etc

There is also the opportunity to take some energy off peak even for people with a lifestyle that leads them to on peak usage.
Eg UPS equivalent devices (ie small grid connected power stores) could power the TV, TV box, Xbox etc at peak, then be switched back to recharge when the peak rates fall off and cheaper units can be used to recharge them back up for the next peak.
Whether these would be cost effective of course depends on the price differential between peak and off peak unit costs.
Innovation will come if its enabled.

 

[robgmun]

OVO have not backed down with me. Wouldn’t accept it on the phone but when I emailed the complaint through they replied back pretty quickly to confirm it was ok to remain where it is. They gave me a rough estimate of my predicted usage (shame they don’t break it down properly like other providers) and asked me to keep an eye on it - of course I will!

My problem was them treating me like I don’t know how to handle my bills and usage and despite explaining my usage last year was excessive due to baby they assumed it would now always be like that. I checked back and my gas usage was 3 times higher than pre-baby.

I’m predicted to stay in credit until November and then I’ll see about top up payments / upping my DD a bit.

I don't know if it's my manner on the phone but EDF back down immediately when I tell them very firmly (but not rudely) that I don't accept the rise and to put it back down right away.

 

[fez]

Not gonna lie, I really don't like the idea that we are capping the energy prices at potentially such a low bar. Some people need more help that others but we will be paying for this for years and the people who will benefit most from this are people who can most afford it.

It will also disincentivise people from being super careful with their energy usage.

As is always the case with these things, its a balance between giving targeted people the help they need vs the difficulty and cost of doing that.

 

[Haggisman]

Not gonna lie, I really don't like the idea that we are capping the energy prices at potentially such a low bar. Some people need more help that others but we will be paying for this for years and the people who will benefit most from this are people who can most afford it.

It will also disincentivise people from being super careful with their energy usage.

As is always the case with these things, its a balance between giving targeted people the help they need vs the difficulty and cost of doing that.

Maybe those of us proactive enough to fix can pay the slightly higher prices for now and then enjoy not having to pay back this unwanted loan over the next few years/decades?

 

[HungryHippos]

That won't work, it's not a personal debt you owe, it's very much a law of averages.

You could fix higher and pay more, but it would not benefit you at all to do so in my view.

 

[Sinbad2000]

Maybe those of us proactive enough to fix can pay the slightly higher prices for now and then enjoy not having to pay back this unwanted loan over the next few years/decades?

Well if your fix is below the cost of providing the service, then you are also contributing to the need for the loan

 

[Trifid]

Not gonna lie, I really don't like the idea that we are capping the energy prices at potentially such a low bar. Some people need more help that others but we will be paying for this for years and the people who will benefit most from this are people who can most afford it.

It will also disincentivise people from being super careful with their energy usage.

As is always the case with these things, its a balance between giving targeted people the help they need vs the difficulty and cost of doing that.

I tend to agree. Without sufficient stick to discourage high/wasteful usage, the competition for the lower supply will turn into a international government sponsored bidding war that we will be paying for an entire generation. Maybe a subsidy for the first x units a month and no price cap on high usage. Small business subsidies will need to be a bit more carefully allocated by industry.

 

[jpaul]

if you didn't hear it director of fiscal studies

But Mr Johnson told BBC’s Today programme: “If this is a straightforward bill freeze then the majority of the money will go to better-off people who use more energy.

“So this is very poorly targeted. Not only is it poorly targeted, but it also means that we don’t see the full price signal, that across the world people need to see.

“The reason that gas prices are so high is because there’s less gas around and if the world doesn’t use more gas over the net year then we’re going to run out.

“Finding a way of targeting it to the many millions that really need it, without giving it to the many millions who don’t, appears to be something that has stumped the treasury and the Government for finding a mechanism of achieving that.”

Meanwhile beloved Martin

According to Martin Lewis, the Prime Minister's plans to freeze the price cap at its present level would "help substantially" in the face of the impending energy "catastrophe".

 

[StriderX]

It's fine just all the gas you want now, fiscal responsibility approved.

 

[Puzzled]

Plans by Liz Truss to cap energy bills could mean that increases in the cost of living will peak earlier and be significantly lower than previously forecast, economists have said.
The new PM is understood to want to cap typical energy bills at £2,500, with full details expected on Thursday.
Goldman Sachs says this could see inflation peak at 10.8% in October, rather than the 14.8% forecast before.
Prices are currently rising faster than they have done for 40 years.
Economists at the investment bank said that a cap on bills for households would lead to prices falling more quickly next year too, with inflation (which tracks how the cost of living changes over time) slowing to 2.4% by next December.
But they cautioned that there was uncertainty around what would happen once any cap is lifted.
How prices change will depend on wholesale gas prices, they said, which have been extremely volatile.

Pound falls to lowest level against dollar since 1985

It comes after the Bank of England warned that little could be done to stop a recession in the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

Good news on the inflation front though. Still high but not the crazy 18 - 20% being talked about a few weeks ago.

 

[delta0]

if you didn't hear it director of fiscal studies


Meanwhile beloved Martin

At this time it’s important we take a long term view on this and squeezing the middle yet again is not going to this. It will continue to suppress the economy and make the UK much less attractive to do business or attract talent. There won’t be more to give if businesses go under and the middle aren’t given a break as well.

 

[jpaul]

We'll see if Keir Starmer is on the ball during question time to pre-empt/critique Truss's energy proposal (are you listening Kier)

the rest of fiscal studies director transcript

Johnson also said that the UK government can afford to borrow £100bn to tackle the cost of living crisis, although the amount may well rise to an “awful lot more”.
We can afford to borrow that amount. We’re still managing to borrow relatively straightforwardly on the international markets, although the interest rate we’re having to pay is rising quite fast: it’s gone above 3% for the first time in more than a decade and that’s still relatively low in historical terms.
The big question here is: ‘Is it going to be £100bn? What is the exit strategy from supporting bills?’ My guess is it might end up being an awful lot more than that unless we react quite quickly to make it a better system.
Is it the best way of spending the money? I rather suspect it is an inevitable way in the short run if everybody who needs help is to get that help, but I do think it’s incredibly important that the government thinks through and gets to a better or more targeted way of supporting us as we get through to next winter. Otherwise, we’re going to be on the hook, potentially, for an awful lot more money, for an awful lot longer.
This year and next the government will be spending about the same amount, £100bn, just on interest, on servicing its debt, the IFS director said. A lot of that is index-linked debt and should fall once inflation comes down

 

[Grim5]

Pound falls to lowest level against dollar since 1985

It comes after the Bank of England warned that little could be done to stop a recession in the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

Good news on the inflation front though. Still high but not the crazy 18 - 20% being talked about a few weeks ago.

The article doesn't say what is actually getting capped. Is it the price retailers can charge or the price generators can charge?

And in either case, since the UK is interconnected with Europe, if someone's revenue is capped then their cost is not - will the UK government be funding private businesses to avoid them going bankrupt?

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Can't cap the generators or they will simply stop

 

[robgmun]

It's fine just all the gas you want now, fiscal responsibility approved.

That's not how it works, there's never been a ceiling to the amount you pay. You use more, you pay more. Just the back breaking rincing of the low and middle income workers have been adverted

 

[LabR@t]

One of the new EV legislations is a built in delayed charger I think, so they don't all kick off at the exact same moment.

It's possible to schedule/randomise enough to prevent a huge peak all at once.

That's handy I need to charge by car as im leaving in 1 hour but the charger is going to delay starting to by 55 minutest.

 

[HungryHippos]

That's handy I need to charge by car as im leaving in 1 hour but the charger is going to delay starting to by 55 minutest.

Oh really? what car have you got and where are you going?

 

[CaptainRAVE]

I wonder what they’ll do if they decide to cap energy prices for those of us fixed slightly higher than the cap. I’m sure there’ll be a fair few.

 

[Doobedoo]

Can't cap the generators or they will simply stop

What stop accepting money? Can’t see that myself.

 

[Haggisman]

I wonder what they’ll do if they decide to cap energy prices for those of us fixed slightly higher than the cap. I’m sure there’ll be a fair few.

It's unlikely they'll do anything, except to perhaps force suppliers to allow us to drop back to the SVR/capped rate without penalty.

What I'm most concerned about is them promising a cap - so everyone currently fixed at higher drops back on to the SVR - then at the last minute they decide they're not going to cap after all.