Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

413x said:
Something will have to give.

These prices will grind Europe particularly down to nothing.

Shows that at the core natural resources within your borders means so much.
And not selling them off to private corps!

We are stuffed in Europe. Too big a population, too reliant on volatiles countries resources. If this cost keeps up we and many other countries will just accelerate our decline.

We are over populated. I've never agreed with people who say we aren't. Things like this highlight it.


If these prices are the new norm standard of living is going to tank even more than we think. Government help can only go on so long.
I guess vulnerable people will just die?


Time to move to a hotter climate!
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I agree in some ways, but disagree in others.

Its always been the case that domestic resources are a boon, the main benefit in time of ... war.
They also mean less likelihood of importing inflation on those items, although once you go full on capitalism the benefit moves from security of supply to GDP benefit.

Whats happened is that for the last couple of hundred years fossil fuels have been cheap to extract and as such have dominated energy.
We got used to it, and took it for granted.
I dont think anyone now really thinks that time isnt over, its just for how much longer can we keep extracting and allowing their usage in vast numbers.
Its certainly possible for us to move off most of them now, but the economic cost is prohibitive.

The population is a somewhat similar issue in that our growth has been kept pace with by innovation, its amazing when you look back 2000 years what % of the population was simply providing food.
Even back to WW2 when we were trying to grow as much domestically has been dwarfed now.
How many times we can keep doing this is an unknown, but I think we will see at least one more, the switch to high tech hydroponics in factory farmed areas as opposed to open land.
 
Interesting when I look at last few months average daily elec usage.
Aug 19.3 kwh
Sept 18.6 kwh
Oct 17.9 kwh

Not really made any major changes, turned the BT TV box to proper energy saver rather than smart.
And used the airfryer increasingly over that period.
Tinkered with a few settings on my pc and removed 6 HDDs.
The 6HDDs I estimate were using 1.3kwh per day (permanently in use) which would bring Aug and Oct to practically the same, seeing as Aug they were mainly in use and Oct they are gone.
So the attempts at saving have basically offset the extra lighting etc being used now compared to Aug when putting a light on was very rare.

I have switched some of the energy usage to after midnight to take advantage of octopus go, but the main benefit from that will come in a month or so when the solar and batteries are fitted.

I got myself a new smart plug with an app so am going to start testing some of the always on things to get an idea of usage. Things like bluray player that are on but rarely used to see if they are worth switching off completely or not.
Going to be interesting to see how much the fish tank uses by month across the seasons.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
I agree in some ways, but disagree in others.

Its always been the case that domestic resources are a boon, the main benefit in time of ... war.
They also mean less likelihood of importing inflation on those items, although once you go full on capitalism the benefit moves from security of supply to GDP benefit.

Whats happened is that for the last couple of hundred years fossil fuels have been cheap to extract and as such have dominated energy.
We got used to it, and took it for granted.
I dont think anyone now really thinks that time isnt over, its just for how much longer can we keep extracting and allowing their usage in vast numbers.
Its certainly possible for us to move off most of them now, but the economic cost is prohibitive.

The population is a somewhat similar issue in that our growth has been kept pace with by innovation, its amazing when you look back 2000 years what % of the population was simply providing food.
Even back to WW2 when we were trying to grow as much domestically has been dwarfed now.
How many times we can keep doing this is an unknown, but I think we will see at least one more, the switch to high tech hydroponics in factory farmed areas as opposed to open land.
Click to expand...

Don't think our population size (world) and standard of living (especially the 'west') can move fast enough away from fossil fuels.
What will happen in my view is

A) mass loss of life/down grade of standard of living through ever more expensive fossil fuels/resources
B) mass loss of life/down grade of standard of living through environmental disaster

It feels like A & B are happening simultaneously. We will(are) and feeling the affects of A, exacerbated by the war. But B, the bigger one, is Creeping along, still fairly silent. But when it really starts to bite, it will be too late.

How many times do scientists have to say 'it'll be too late in X years' for the world to act? It won't.
If we can't get off gas with Russia invading another country we are never going to do it because a bunch of scientists are saying we should, but really, right now, things aren't that bad.
 
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I have been doing some analysis recently to work out where my spend is going. Unfortunately it looks like economy 7 doesn't make much sense for me, despite EV + timed Dishwasher + timed Tumble Drier.

Annoying - probably need to give it a bit more time.

e6jySPz.png
 
dLockers said:
I have been doing some analysis recently to work out where my spend is going. Unfortunately it looks like economy 7 doesn't make much sense for me, despite EV + timed Dishwasher + timed Tumble Drier.

Annoying - probably need to give it a bit more time.

e6jySPz.png
Click to expand...

Yeah you need to get roughly 1/3 of your units to be night rate to hit breakeven point, less than that and your paying too much for the day units for the night units to bring your average down.
Eg 2x day units plus 1x night unit would cost £1.03, and 3x Rate 2 units would be £1.02
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Yeah you need to get roughly 1/3 of your units to be night rate to hit breakeven point, less than that and your paying too much for the day units for the night units to bring your average down.
Eg 2x day units plus 1x night unit would cost £1.03, and 3x Rate 2 units would be £1.02
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Makes sense. I guess the key to achieve that though is to shift utilisation to the night, but I really can't shift anything else. Maybe electric car utilisation needs to be baselined to make a proper decision.

Added day and night ratio column. Regardless of hitting 70/30 the cost on economy 7 works out more. The units used in the day can't be moved into the night for whatever lifestyle reasons.

dV5Ccpw.png
 
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dLockers said:
Makes sense. I guess the key to achieve that though is to shift utilisation to the night, but I really can't shift anything else. Maybe electric car utilisation needs to be baselined to make a proper decision.

Added day and night ratio column. Regardless of hitting 70/30 the cost on economy 7 works out more. The units used in the day can't be moved into the night for whatever lifestyle reasons.

dV5Ccpw.png
Click to expand...

You sure thats all correct?, if 37% are in night usage it should be cheaper on eco 7

Edit : Think your night rate sub total is wrong

Edit 2 : edit 1 above is right, you multiplying night units X 34p not 15p
 
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If they do targeted help I know it will be complicated but vouchers or something really would be best.

Just handing out the money in cash isn't great.

I know that some people on my council estate in York, apparently spent the last cost of living in one go, on crack cocaine. :(
 
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Alice In Wonderland said:
If they do targeted help I know it will be complicated but vouchers or something really would be best.

Just handing out the money in cash isn't great.

I know that some people on my council estate in York, apparently spent the last cost of living in one go, on crack cocaine. :(
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Might be cheaper than eating and heating, will need to run the numbers ;)
 
Alice In Wonderland said:
If they do targeted help I know it will be complicated but vouchers or something really would be best.

Just handing out the money in cash isn't great.

I know that some people on my council estate in York, apparently spent the last cost of living in one go, on crack cocaine. :(
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How much is it for a gram now? Asking for a friend.
 
Alice In Wonderland said:
They all thought Christmas had come early and just spaffed it up the wall basically :rolleyes:

I didn't quite realise that kind of thing went on where I lived.

I'm much too naive for my own good :D
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Unfortunately it happens everywhere, and that feeling of utter hopelessness that drives people to such things is only going to get worse.
 
German master plan
fits in with eu global reduction plan

What's included in the plan?​

According to the plan, there would be a single payment of the equivalent of a monthly bill to gas customers in December.

That would be followed by a brake on gas and heating prices — by far the costliest part of the package.

Large industrial firms would pay a set rate, €0.07 ($0.068) per kilowatt hour, for the first 70% of their gas bill for (last) 16 months as of January.

Private consumers, including domestic users and small and medium-sized firms, would pay a higher tariff of €0.12 per kilowatt hour for the first 80% for (last) 14 months from March.

Above that usage, the customer would have to pay at market rates.
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fez said:
The poor do get help. The problem is that the amount of help they require is huge and you have to balance things out. You can't easily target just the needy. You can't just give people free energy because how much do people get. You can just rely on peoples honesty because people are horribly dishonest.

The cost of energy is insane. Its already being subsidised massively and because the per-unit cap is in effect loads of people won't even try to cut back because they can afford the cap. All that does is increase the public debt.

Its an almost impossible situation but I hope they do find a sensible solution to it.
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Indeed, most people in this thread were concerned about the post Oct and especially post Jan rises and considered the EPG a reasonable short term resolution, whilst the poorest were already in absolute panic dealing with the rises we had 6 months ago in April, hence they were so heavily targeted in the first place.
 
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