Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
You cant join go until they see 30 minute readings but that seems to happen almost immediately if you have a smets 2
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dlockers had previously expressed concern that in interim you could be on a variable tarif with max 70p/kwh until the meter was onboarded ... ok it was done quickly for you - perhaps that was a different octopus tarif

Troop said:
It works for us using the immersion, 1 tank covers our daily use for all hot water for 12-14 pence daily. (on GO faster tariff)
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one tank - a couple of kwhr's is only some 50L of 50C water
 
jpaul said:
dlockers had previously expressed concern that in interim you could be on a variable tarif with max 70p/kwh until the meter was onboarded ... ok it was done quickly for you - perhaps that was a different octopus tarif


one tank - a couple of kwhr's is only some 50L of 50C water
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I'm not on go yet - no real benefit until I have teh EV as I don't have batteries to charge up at night, and the day rate is appreciably higher than their EPG (SVT) rate. They're taking on supply on that tariff from Monday.
 
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jpaul said:
dlockers had previously expressed concern that in interim you could be on a variable tarif with max 70p/kwh until the meter was onboarded ... ok it was done quickly for you - perhaps that was a different octopus tarif


one tank - a couple of kwhr's is only some 50L of 50C water
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Thats from a cold temp, if you're not using all the heated water daily, you are infect just topping up the heat, ours over the last 8 months has used/ cost what I stated, 1.5-1.7kWh daily.

Edit to add pic.

Tue use, 1.55kw water heating you can see it on the far left of the graph.

bMxRSgY.jpg
 
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Will Gill said:
here was the first quote, which was hilarious:
JwJYOOm.png


then they changed the punchline to this

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I live on my own, my old direct debit was £100, how on earth are people supposed to afford these increases, asking for all my friends :p
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You need to switch to Octopus.

I'd be having kittens if I had to pay that much.
 
Troop said:
If you change from "GO" to "GO faster" you only need to last until 9.30pm on the battery and it will give you an extra hour of off-peak charging time.

The 9.30pm start time makes it easier to make use of the cheap rate.
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Yes I mentioned about that over in the solar thread I think, but ultimately to get onto that you need to give them an EV reg number which I didn't have.

That was the form they gave me anyway.

They've pulled Go Faster for now I think as well.

I'm better off on Go at least throughout the winter time, as I can 100% charge up a bunch of units for 7.5p, if I do pay for full price ones they are £0.40 each but I won't need many of them per day even on the worst days.

The Agile pricing is great still, especially if it stays like that.
 
Troop said:
Thats from a cold temp, if you're not using all the heated water daily, you are infect just topping up the heat, ours over the last 8 months has used/ cost what I stated, 1.5-1.7kWh daily.
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By the way I wasn’t poo pooing on your usage you do what suits you. Just that even though I have similar setup as you I know for a fact that it’s far cheaper for us not to use our immersion at all, because although like yourself it doesn’t cost much to actually heat the tank, we barely use enough hot water to justify it.

So the advice you have to another person may not be valid if he has to reconfigure his setup, assuming electric shower, to immersion fed mains shower. Anyhoo we can move on :D
 
Doobedoo said:
Having a modern well insulated tank, octopus go, solar and or ashp? No gas.
Yeah both can exist one is less likely than the other?
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You don't need all those things, the senario is you have a "modern" tank (anything in the last 20 years will probably do as they've been designed to have heat loss of less than 2kWh for a long time now when storing 60c water) and a cheaper source of electric. So it could be economy 7, or octopus go etc. Solar or ASHP is not required but will further boost your costs savings for usage if you happen to have them. Your exact senario is also not very big picture, you talk about standing losses from the tank but in your senario the person doesn't have gas, so how are they heating their home? I'll take a guess and its not with a heat pump. The "wasted" energy from the tank is no diffrent from storage heaters in winter and is in fact not wasted as it eventually heats your home from lower cost electric. So if you can heat the tank at night for 30% the cost as during the day almost none of it is wasted since you use the hot water for shower and any lost from the tank heats your home.
 
Doobedoo said:
By the way I wasn’t poo pooing on your usage you do what suits you. Just that even though I have similar setup as you I know for a fact that it’s far cheaper for us not to use our immersion at all, because although like yourself it doesn’t cost much to actually heat the tank, we barely use enough hot water to justify it.

So the advice you have to another person may not be valid if he has to reconfigure his setup, assuming electric shower, to immersion fed mains shower. Anyhoo we can move on :D
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NP, all good...... we are all just giving our own info on what has worked for ourselves, as has been said no one option fits all.
People need to just wade through all the info available and chose what best suits their own needs

Have added a graph to the post you quoted.
 
Gammawolf said:
You don't need all those things, the senario is you have a "modern" tank (anything in the last 20 years will probably do as they've been designed to have heat loss of less than 2kWh for a long time now when storing 60c water) and a cheaper source of electric. So it could be economy 7, or octopus go etc. Solar or ASHP is not required but will further boost your costs savings for usage if you happen to have them. Your exact senario is also not very big picture, you talk about standing losses from the tank but in your senario the person doesn't have gas, so how are they heating their home? I'll take a guess and its not with a heat pump. The "wasted" energy from the tank is no diffrent from storage heaters in winter and is in fact not wasted as it eventually heats your home from lower cost electric. So if you can heat the tank at night for 30% the cost as during the day almost none of it is wasted since you use the hot water for shower and any lost from the tank heats your home.
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Ok so I’ll talk about my situation. I live on a estate that has no gas supply at all. Our house is all electric so we have an immersion tank that is fed solely off the economy 7 circuit. My tank takes roughly 4.5- 5kw to heat from cold, from the minute it’s heated you incur thermal loses. If like us you don’t actually use much hot water because we have both an electric shower and a dishwasher then the majority of that heated water is wasted. It’s like heating an instant water supply to only have 2 cups of tea a day, when a kettle boiled twice will do the same job but with much less waste.
 
Troop said:
Thats from a cold temp, if you're not using all the heated water daily, you are infect just topping up the heat, ours over the last 8 months has used/ cost what I stated, 1.5-1.7kWh daily.
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OK calc I'd done- couple of spartan showers 5 mins 50L of water each @35C 1.76Kwh alone, and add in some kitchen use, tank losses, boiler efficiency.

jpaul said:
you can bound the time it should take for the boiler to heat the water in the tank (or part of the stratified tank)
so if your 30kw boilers been on for 20minutes thats 10kwh of energy and would have heated about 200L from 20->60C

volume in litres x 4 x temperature rise in degrees centigrade / 3412

(4 being a factor and 3412 being a given constant)

for example 100 litres of water, to be heated from 20ºC to 50ºC, giving a temperature rise of 30ºC would give –

100 x 4 x 30 / 3412 = 3.52 Kwh
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I haven’t really followed all this that much, and I just carry on paying what I’m told. But my latest bill shows this:

Current Balance £716 in credit

Monthly Direct Debit needs to be increased from £92 to £98 per month

Estimated balance by the end of the 12-month billing period -£173.

How they work any of that out is beyond me!
 
Doobedoo said:
Ok so I’ll talk about my situation. I live on a estate that has no gas supply at all. Our house is all electric so we have an immersion tank that is fed solely off the economy 7 circuit. My tank takes roughly 4.5- 5kw to heat from cold, from the minute it’s heated you incur thermal loses. If like us you don’t actually use much hot water because we have both an electric shower and a dishwasher then the majority of that heated water is wasted. It’s like heating an instant water supply to only have 2 cups of tea a day, when a kettle boiled twice will do the same job but with much less waste.
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I would hazard a guess using a few common assumptions that a person in the same situation but without electric showers should be no worse off money wise (but should be more comfortable temp wise) given economy 7 is roughly 60% the day rate. The assumptions being that:

- Your tank is relatively recent (ie not jacket tank but at least spray foamed insulation)
- Your tank is not placed somewhere outside your property (so the energy it loses just heats your home)
- You actually use heating (ofc if you dont use heating or your place is so efficient that its not required then you could class tank loss as a waste)
- An average shower length
- Same hot water usage

In the above situation an electric shower could be argued to be cheaper than the tank, given the economy rate, only if you blitz your showers and use very little hot water compared to the storage capacity of the tank you have. With your tank needing 5kWh i'd estimate it to be a 100L tank which is about right to store 2 showers worth of hot water (shower for around 10 minutes each) when mixed down. In any case even when looking at extremely similar scenarios, just changing usage vs tank capacity can throw things out completely when comparing, so whats cheaper for some might not be cheaper for others, even with the same equiptment
 
Gammawolf said:
I would hazard a guess using a few common assumptions that a person in the same situation but without electric showers should be no worse off money wise (but should be more comfortable temp wise) given economy 7 is roughly 60% the day rate. The assumptions being that:

- Your tank is relatively recent (ie not jacket tank but at least spray foamed insulation)
- Your tank is not placed somewhere outside your property (so the energy it loses just heats your home)
- You actually use heating (ofc if you dont use heating or your place is so efficient that its not required then you could class tank loss as a waste)
- An average shower length
- Same hot water usage

In the above situation an electric shower could be argued to be cheaper than the tank, given the economy rate, only if you blitz your showers and use very little hot water compared to the storage capacity of the tank you have. With your tank needing 5kWh i'd estimate it to be a 100L tank which is about right to store 2 showers worth of hot water (shower for around 10 minutes each) when mixed down. In any case even when looking at extremely similar scenarios, just changing usage vs tank capacity can throw things out completely when comparing, so whats cheaper for some might not be cheaper for others, even with the same equiptment
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also you save on your standing charge which should give you another 1 - 2 of kwh of electricity per day and also the 60 - 70 quid a year to service your gas boiler.

dont get me wrong, right now i have a gas combi boiler and not looking to replace it in a hurry......... BUT i doubt i would buy a brand new gas boiler now - or at least i would think long and hard about it.

There is absolutely no doubt that if you do it wrong full electric power can cost you an arm and a leg........... but equally I believe if you spec wisely and have the right property for it, I do not think it has to cost insane amounts more.
 
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TimTom said:
I haven’t really followed all this that much, and I just carry on paying what I’m told. But my latest bill shows this:

Current Balance £716 in credit

Monthly Direct Debit needs to be increased from £92 to £98 per month

Estimated balance by the end of the 12-month billing period -£173.

How they work any of that out is beyond me!
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What's your annual consumption of gas and electricity in kWh?
 
Will Gill said:
here was the first quote, which was hilarious:

then they changed the punchline to this

I live on my own, my old direct debit was £100, how on earth are people supposed to afford these increases, asking for all my friends :p
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What's going on here? Are you heating a swimming pool you don't know about?!
 
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