Energy Suppliers

[darsuke]

Damn sorry i hadn't noticed people were doing that till i read the rest of posts and noticed i got a link.

Do bulb work with smart meters? Got one from BG already. Guess its their equipment so no?

We just switched BG to Bulb. You lose the automated meter reading so have to use the app to send them in.
Surprisingly the energy monitor didn't just die like I assumed it would. You still see the usage but obviously the pricing is incorrect after the switch. And it does record the meter reads so you don't have to get down on your hands and knees when it comes to reading the meters.

 

[phrases]

We just switched BG to Bulb. You lose the automated meter reading so have to use the app to send them in.
Surprisingly the energy monitor didn't just die like I assumed it would. You still see the usage but obviously the pricing is incorrect after the switch. And it does record the meter reads so you don't have to get down on your hands and knees when it comes to reading the meters.

So they don't use monitors for energy usuage?

 

[darsuke]

So they don't use monitors for energy usuage?

Bulb?
I think they're just introducing their own smart meters and monitors.

 

[Firestar_3x]

Looking to switch my deal with Avro is coming to an end, just looked on bulbs website and outfox the market seem cheaper?

https://bulb.co.uk/tariff/

I currently pay:

Electric: 11.26 kWh 17.85 SC
Gas: 2.77 kWh / 17.85 SC

Around £189 a month bill.

 

[bloodiedathame]

Looking to switch my deal with Avro is coming to an end, just looked on bulbs website and outfox the market seem cheaper?

https://bulb.co.uk/tariff/

Quotes are different depending where in the country you are.

 

[Firestar_3x]

Quotes are different depending where in the country you are.

I see, thanks.

 

[Captain]

Got a letter from Eon today which was who the previous occupant used, their charges are quite high really.

Standing charge of 27p per day for electric and 31p for Gas, compared to bulb which is 20p and 19p.

 

[HungryHippos]

They rip people off who don't know any better.

 

[jpaul]

But how many of the new guys have gone to the wall ?
it's like the rail privatisation ... did the average consumer get a better deal/service ? but, that consumer, has to underwrite the losses made by the failing energy companies, whose management walked away with the gold.
The big energy guys have responded and become more competitive (eg. recent BG tarifs)

From the linked, bulb forums, they are having problems deploying the smart meters, will they be fined ?, and how will that effect their stability.

 

[Zenduri]

The problem with a lot of the smaller suppliers is they suddenly get a large enough consumer base that they become subject to schemes and regulations that only effect the big 6 ATM then they tend to fail because they dont have the experience or the cash reserves. There have been a few that have gone to the wall owing several million.

The energy market is.. complex and as soon as you start hitting big enough consumer bases thats when **** gets real. For example smaller suppliers can buy on day prices for gas and elec which means they can react well to cheap prices but not to price hikes in the global energy market. Big suppliers are buying all electric and gas 14 months in advance so they tend to offer poorer prices as they are edging for fluctuation that might happen in the next 14 months. If the bigger suppliers were allowed to buy on day prices there may be a better market out there for energy.

Its all down to regulation and customer base size

 

[Slade2]

The problem with a lot of the smaller suppliers is they suddenly get a large enough consumer base that they become subject to schemes and regulations that only effect the big 6 ATM then they tend to fail because they dont have the experience or the cash reserves. There have been a few that have gone to the wall owing several million.

The energy market is.. complex and as soon as you start hitting big enough consumer bases thats when **** gets real. For example smaller suppliers can buy on day prices for gas and elec which means they can react well to cheap prices but not to price hikes in the global energy market. Big suppliers are buying all electric and gas 14 months in advance so they tend to offer poorer prices as they are edging for fluctuation that might happen in the next 14 months. If the bigger suppliers were allowed to buy on day prices there may be a better market out there for energy.

Its all down to regulation and customer base size

Not really sure that`s how it works, I always assumed it was kinda the opposite? The whole sale gas price has been steadily decreasing since 2013. There is nothing stopping the any of the big six trading on day prices but they don`t want to be doing that because it ultimately costs them more money because just like normal, buying stuff on the day you actually need it is more expensive. The reason they are safe is because the big six have the ability to hedge price increases by buying energy like you have stated months in advance. The smaller suppliers fail because when they have a massive influx of customers by offering cheap deals to the public then they have to purchase that energy to supply to those customers and they cant trade long in the market because they simply don`t have the required capital to buy that far in advance. If you then have a particularly cold couple of days in winter or really hot ones in summer (Air con costs a lot as well) then the smaller suppliers are forced to purchase the energy their customers are using at largely inflated rates because the demand on those days rises. Some of the smaller suppliers are trying as best they can to use there own energy suppliers to purchase much of the energy in advance.

 

[jpaul]

but, that consumer, has to underwrite the losses made by the failing energy companies

... you can find several articles online eg.

Few of us had heard of “moral hazard” until the Bank of England started banging on about it during the financial crisis.

As the banking world was collapsing around his ears, the then-governor Lord King said it would be wrong to bail out banks because it would set an example to others that they too could behave recklessly and be rescued. Moral hazard.

He was wrong. As he admits (when not slagging off his successors), King put too much stress on moral hazard and not enough on the greater need to step in and secure the integrity of the banking system.

However, though he got the balance wrong, the concept was right: companies should not be allowed to operate on the understanding that if their risky behaviour goes wrong, they will be bailed out, in full, by someone else.

Energy companies are concerned that a form of moral hazard is creeping into their world. This time, it’s the moral hazard of consumers.

In regulators’ enthusiasm to nurture competition, a system now exists where, if a company goes under, customers will be transferred to another supplier and any credit they have for energy not yet used 100% reimbursed. The pledge is part-funded by a levy on the industry.

given the limited liability, is the auditing stringence neglected too ?

 

[Firestar_3x]

Got a letter from Eon today which was who the previous occupant used, their charges are quite high really.

Standing charge of 27p per day for electric and 31p for Gas, compared to bulb which is 20p and 19p.

If you are a large energy user paying a larger standing charge per day and less per kWh can work in your favour.

 

[Zenduri]

There is nothing stopping the any of the big six trading on day prices but they don`t want to be doing that because it ultimately costs them more money because just like normal, buying stuff on the day you actually need it is more expensive.

You would think this is the case but unfortunately not. The big suppliers are basically forced to buy the energy more than a year in advance where smaller suppliers aren't held to that limitation. It does mean that the larger suppliers can absorb fluctuations in prices better than the smaller guys.

The smaller suppliers fail because when they have a massive influx of customers by offering cheap deals to the public then they have to purchase that energy to supply to those customers and they cant trade long in the market because they simply don`t have the required capital to buy that far in advance.

Yes and no, they fail because they get sufficient enough in size that they then have Eco obligations, ofgem obligations etc that they need to start paying for that they didn't have to when they were smaller. Renewable obligations seems to have caught a few out and then they dont have the cash to pay the demands and they go under

 

[ChrisD.]

They cant even get their own meters working, so you've no hope with one from another supplier

My electricity one works fine but my gas one doesn't, I'm having to manually enter the meter readings. I will give them a call to send someone out to sort it out soon.

 

[jpaul]

with the seemingly decline of gas prices versus electric, I do wonder if getting out of an electric hob and into gas would be economic ?
2 years ago ( thread ) - it was about £40 p/a to the benefit of gas, not even considering the purchase premium for an induction hob ...
I need a loop energy meter on the hob.
(notwithstanding the governments low-carbon - ban gas 'plan')

 

[cheesyboy]

with the seemingly decline of gas prices versus electric, I do wonder if getting out of an electric hob and into gas would be economic ?
2 years ago ( thread ) - it was about £40 p/a to the benefit of gas, not even considering the purchase premium for an induction hob ...
I need a loop energy meter on the hob.
(notwithstanding the governments low-carbon - ban gas 'plan')

I buy propane gas by the bottle for my hobs, so the cost of running them is isolated from everything else. 19kg lasts about 8 months and costs £40 ish (I've recently been told I can get this down to £30 ish if I sign up to an account with the retailer). Whatever saving you make moving from electric is not going to be huge, maybe 1 or 2 quid a month.

That's a family of four, it gets used every day.