England: What went wrong? (serious discussion) **SPOILERS**

Gilly said:
We're fairly sure that Gerrard and Lampard don't fit into 4-4-2 together though, so who do you drop?

I think more like Cole - Lampard - Hargreaves - Gerrard

Retaining Lennon as an impact player. He's played on the right plenty to good effect :)
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Sounds like a good formation that.
Lennon would do better as an impact player. Like Walcott would. Their speed would destroy opposition defences in the last bits of a game with their pace.
 
JohnnyG said:
Fair point, I guess it won't be 4-4-2, but the theory's the same.
I don't think they're too similar to play together in that system, I just think they need guidance how to do it:)
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England don't have a Drogba or Shevchenko though.
 
Gilly said:
I mean the formation I imagine Chelsea will be playing wouldn't suit England because we don't have the other personnel :)
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They could play the Chelsea formation, but to do that they would have to play Rooney as one of the winger (Robben role) type players with Crouch up top. You would also have to drop Owen to play that formation as well.
Thats a point come to think of it; is this the beginning of the end for Owen as well? He's undoubtedly a top player and im sure this poor run is just a blip but i really think England are beginning to play similar to the likes of Liverpool and Chelsea with less reliance on strikers scoring the bulk of the goals and with midfielders contributing. If that is the case then i think Crouch and Rooney would be a better frontline; one because Crouch will link up with the midfield more/better and also because Owen relies on the team playing to his strengths (ie balls in behind the defence etc) and i don't think (as we saw in the group stages) he will be as effective.
 
I felt that if Lampard could score once, he would continue to score. He just needed that first one to go in to raise his confidence.
 
Tony Soprano said:
I felt that if Lampard could score once, he would continue to score. He just needed that first one to go in to raise his confidence.
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I agree.
A few players have been like that this tournament. Unfortunatelly for a lot of counties, only 1 has 'broken his duck'.
 
I think we could fit Lampard and Gerrard in too, maybe even in a diamond:

Code: 
              Robinson

Neville  Terry (c) Ferdinand  Cole


             Hargreaves

 Gerrard                     Cole

             Lampard

      Owen          Rooney

Maybe even swap Lampard for Gerrard and drop Lampard for Beckham (quiet at the back). You never know; Beckham might actually have a few better games without the responsibility of being a captain. Particularly as McLaren is still unlikely to drop him.
 
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I think we parhaps went into this world cup with a little too much arrogance and not enough reflection on reality. People talk about the 'Golden Generation' but if you look at the players on the pitch (as opposed to sitting on the bench) they just weren't as good as we hoped, particularly the midfield.

Of the recent first choice four attacking midfielders, who would have got a place in the 1990 team? Perhaps Stephen Gerrard might have pushed for a place but I'm not sure he'd have been a certainty. Cole might have been able to get a run but not on the left wing. Can you really see a team that could call on Waddle and Gascoigne finding a place for Beckham? They both had his range of passing and crossing, with their ability to hit a dead ball being of similar standard. Perhaps the Beckham of 2001 or 2002 might have been a worthy substitute but not the Beckham of 2006. Lampard reminds me a little of David Platt but Platt usually looked more convcing for his country.

Yes we had a decent goup of midfielders this year but they lacked the individual brilliance of the 1990 team. What the midfield certainly didn't have, without hargreaves or carrick, was balance and even with them something didn't look right. I think we could have done better in open play with a top class player on the right of midfield that could go outside his man. Any one of J Cole, Gerrard or Lennon on the right might have stretched the opposition more than Beckham's ponderous displays. Maybe even such a small change as Gerrard on the right with Beckham moved inside could have made us less predictable.

I'm glad Beckham's decided to step down as captain. I think he is still a good player and still has something to offer England but not on the right of midfield At Manchester United he had Giggs providing an outlet on the left. Without the appearance of an English equivalent I think Beckham needs to be moved inside, left on the bench or just left out entirely.
 
Uriel said:
...Lampard reminds me a little of David Platt but Platt usually looked more convcing for his country.
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Platt used to score.

I'm glad Beckham's decided to step down as captain. I think he is still a good player and still has something to offer England but not on the right of midfield
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I think he has something to offer, that's if you can trust him with a sharp knife to slice the oranges at half time.
 
Sven probably had it written into his contract that he couldn't leave out Beckham. The FA probably needed the money from sponsorship deals just to pay his wages. Let's hope things aren't the same with McLaren.

To add a little, I can see a Beckham / Hargreaves combination in the centre of midfield being quite effective. Don't think Beckham could do the holding role on his own but I can see him being a good deep playmaker a la John Sheridan for the Republic of Ireland and Sheff Weds in the early 90s (Shezza also was great at free kicks and corners, had no pace and couldn't beat anyone but was pretty handy in that position). Would need a tackler alongside him though. Beckham was effectively in that position when he produced his best piece of open play of the World Cup: that raking 50 yard long pass between the central defenders to Rooney (although if anyone but Rooney had been on the end of it, it would have been a pointless long ball straight to the keeper...)
 
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