England: What went wrong? (serious discussion) SPOILERS

JohnnyG · 2 Jul 2006 at 20:43

vanpeebles said:
all that showed was everytime he got the ball he was greedy enough to blast a crap shot over the bar, instead of either shooting from a better position or moving forward to try and build an attack.

Whenever Lamps had the ball near goal there was no-one ahead of him to pass to (that wasn't his fault) & he's in the team mainly because he scores lots of goals from midfield, he does that by getting in to good positions & being greedy enough to shoot, he did that but just didn't score, that was down to bad luck more than anything else

Burned_Alive · 2 Jul 2006 at 20:46

Yeah, he was pretty unlucky the keeper was infront of every shot he took.

JohnnyG · 2 Jul 2006 at 20:51

Burned_Alive said:
Yeah, he was pretty unlucky the keeper was infront of every shot he took.

Are you implying that he can't score goals?

Gilly · 2 Jul 2006 at 20:51

Everyone needs a bit of luck in front of goal sometimes.

Burned_Alive · 2 Jul 2006 at 20:58

JohnnyG said:
Are you implying that he can't score goals?

On his current form (and in the current system) for england, yes. Obviously at club level its a different matter.

BaZ87 · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:00

Not having a go at Lampard but you can't put it totally down to bad luck for him not scoring. It wasn't as if the keepers were making world class saves or he was hitting the bar etc; i can only think of 3-4 shots where you could say there was nothing more Lampard could have done and had to give credit to the keeper etc.
Also i think it a bit unfair for everyone to get on Lampard back, Beckham was worse, Gerrard wasn't much better, J Cole went missing in the 2 knockout games, Crouch only played well when he came on vs Portugal and Rooney hardly set the World alight when he finally player (although not entirely his fault; service was poor and just back from injury).
Ultimately the blame lies with Sven; if a player is not performing then its his job to take him off no matter who he is. Like i said earlier Sven didn't have the balls to drop the big name players and created formations just to accomendate them in his team and thats what cost us.

JohnnyG · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:01

Burned_Alive said:
On his current form (and in the current system) for england, yes. Obviously at club level its a different matter.

Without his goals we wouldn't even of qualified & how can you blame the system for him not scoring when he had more genuine attempts than anyone? :confused:

BaZ87 · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:03

I can feel another Gerrard-Lampard / Liverpool-Chelsea debate about to start.... and im not involved :eek:

JohnnyG · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:04

BaZ87 said:
I can feel another Gerrard-Lampard / Liverpool-Chelsea debate about to start.... and im not involved

Internationals have nowt to do with domestics unless you're just after an argument

BaZ87 · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:08

JohnnyG said:
Internationals have nowt to do with domestics unless you're just after an argument

Yep your right they have nothing to do with domestics just had a feeling it was about to kick off. And

BaZ87 said:
and im not involved

Im looking for no argument

JohnnyG · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:11

That wasn't aimed at you mate, it was a generic 'you're'

BoomAM · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:16

Im finding a lot of England fans i talk to are calling for Englands midfield to be:
Lennon--Gerrard--Hargreaves--J.Cole.

Im not so sure on that. Although i would like to see Hargreaves become a regular.

JohnnyG · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:20

I think we need to play 4-4-2. Hargreaves probably doesn't fit in to that system, not sure for definite as I (no-one) has seen enough of him to say for sure & we've had enough of finding a system to fit the players

Gilly · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:21

We're fairly sure that Gerrard and Lampard don't fit into 4-4-2 together though, so who do you drop?

I think more like Cole - Lampard - Hargreaves - Gerrard

Retaining Lennon as an impact player. He's played on the right plenty to good effect

BaZ87 · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:25

Gilly said:
We're fairly sure that Gerrard and Lampard don't fit into 4-4-2 together though, so who do you drop?

I think more like Cole - Lampard - Hargreaves - Gerrard

Retaining Lennon as an impact player. He's played on the right plenty to good effect

I called for that formation earlier in the competition. Seems pretty good to me, Gerrard has proven he can play from wide and still be effective and imo he is as good a crosser of the ball as Beckham.
You could also play a 4-1-3-2 formation with Hargreaves or whoever sitting, with Gerrar, Cole and Lampard in front. Cole and Gerrard the 2 wider of the 3 (not too wide as you could allow the fullbacks to get up and support play with a holding player there).

Gilly · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:28

I'd go with that

JohnnyG · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:31

I still think Gerrard & Lamps can play in a 4-4-2, just needs the right manager to do it. JM thinks Ballack & Lamps can play together & I believe him, not sure how they will but I believe him, the right manager can make players play & have belief too

A G/K

Neville - Rio - JT(c) - Cole

Cole - Lamps - Gerrard - Downing

Rooney - Owen/Wallcott(?)/Ashton/Bent/Crouch etc...

Gilly · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:35

They have Makelele though...

JohnnyG · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:43

Fair point, I guess it won't be 4-4-2, but the theory's the same.
I don't think they're too similar to play together in that system, I just think they need guidance how to do it

G|mp · 2 Jul 2006 at 21:44

I would rather see Gerrard on the right for England tbh

He does really well for Liverpool on the right

England: What went wrong? (serious discussion) **SPOILERS**

England: What went wrong? (serious discussion) SPOILERS