Poll: Erik ten Hag Sack Watch & Next Manchester United Manager? Sacked. Ruben Amorim appointed.

To sack or not to sack

  • Total voters
    129
adam cool dude said:
You are seeing what you want to see. Either Varane was out of form or still not fully fit. A bit like a lot of the pundits who haven't watched United game in game out all season. Our most consistent CB partnership was actually Varane + Evans. With 6 starts between them which is also a joke in itself. Next one is Varane + Martinez at 4 and Maguire + Varane at 4.

Varane was actually our most capped CB last season with a whopping 32 appearances, next was Maguire with 31 and Evans with 30. Imagine the mess we would have been without Evans!
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I'm seeing what happened Adam. He was injured for the Arsenal and Brighton games, he then came back into the squad the next game and was a sub vs Burnley, he then started vs Palace and then was left out of the starting line-up for the next 9 League games despite being available.

Despite what you want people to believe, ETH wasn't forced into playing Maguire. He regularly picked him ahead of other CB's - ones that were keeping Maguire out of the side at the start of the season when the club were trying to force him out.

edit: In fact, just looking at Maguire's stats on Transfermarkt, after getting into the side he pretty much played every game he was available for. Obviously at the back end of the season when Utd did have a lot of injuries he may have been the only choice but randomly checking the fixtures in February, he was again being picked ahead of others. Strange decision from ETH to keep picking a player that's so detrimental to how he wants to play. Either he's a worse manager than I think or you're clutching at straws.
 
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BaZ87 said:
I'm seeing what happened Adam. He was injured for the Arsenal and Brighton games, he then came back into the squad the next game and was a sub vs Burnley, he then started vs Palace and then was left out of the starting line-up for the next 9 League games despite being available.

Despite what you want people to believe, ETH wasn't forced into playing Maguire. He regularly picked him ahead of other CB's - ones that were keeping Maguire out of the side at the start of the season when the club were trying to force him out.
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I never said ETH was forced to play Maguire "Either Varane was out of form or still not fully fit". It was obvious at that time there was friction between Varane and the manager for what ever reason. Maguire also found himself in a bit of form himself so the manager had to make a decision. Do you pick on availability to try and form some form of cohesion or do you try and play your best players no matter the outcome? I guess you can form an opinion with hindsight but at the time he had to make a call and with CB's coming in and out of the team every 2 minutes you are never going to win. The reason the club has let Varane go for free is of no surprise even though he is our best right sided CB by miles on a skill front but he is inconsistent and largely unavailable.
 
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adam cool dude said:
I never said ETH was forced to play Maguire "Either Varane was out of form or still not fully fit". It was obvious at that time there was friction between Varane and the manager for what ever reason. Maguire also found himself in a bit of form himself so the manager had to make a decision. Do you pick on availability to try and form some form of cohesion or do you try and play your best players no matter the outcome? I guess you can form an opinion with hindsight but at the time he had to make a call and with CB's coming in and out of the team every 2 minutes you are never going to win. The reason the club has let Varane go for free is of no surprise even though he is our best right sided CB by miles on a skill front but he is inconsistent and largely unavailable.
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So ETH wasn't forced into picking Maguire, he wilfully chose to play a player that (in your words) is the reason why he can't play the football he wants. So ETH is to blame for Utd's performances, I'm glad we cleared that up. And it wasn't just Varane (who was fit and being picked in Cup games vs Palace, Galatasaray & Copenhagen during that period) but Magure was also picked ahead of Lindelof and Evans during the season too, both players who were being picked ahead of Maguire in the opening weeks/months when Utd were trying to force him out.

I get it, you're clutching at straws trying to find excuses for ETH but pointing the finger at Maguire, when ETH was the one picking him isn't a great excuse. ETH is to blame for how Utd play. He was given free rein to buy the players he wanted and having spent near £400m net in 2 seasons it's hard to argue that he doesn't have the players to play how he wants to.
 
BaZ87 said:
So ETH wasn't forced into picking Maguire, he wilfully chose to play a player that (in your words) is the reason why he can't play the football he wants. So ETH is to blame for Utd's performances, I'm glad we cleared that up. And it wasn't just Varane (who was fit and being picked in Cup games vs Palace, Galatasaray & Copenhagen during that period) but Magure was also picked ahead of Lindelof and Evans during the season too, both players who were being picked ahead of Maguire in the opening weeks/months when Utd were trying to force him out.

I get it, you're clutching at straws trying to find excuses for ETH but pointing the finger at Maguire, when ETH was the one picking him isn't a great excuse. ETH is to blame for how Utd play. He was given free rein to buy the players he wanted and having spent near £400m net in 2 seasons it's hard to argue that he doesn't have the players to play how he wants to.
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He willfully chose to pick a player because the other options were either injured or out of form/not match fit. He picked the only option that was reliable and at least having a bit of form. It still doesn't change that with Maguire playing ETH cannot play the type of football he wants. He is trying to make best of a bad situation. He chose to pick Maguire because of the issues surrounding Varane for what ever reason. That choice is on the manager yes. Maguire was our best CB this season but that says a lot about how bad it was. It still doesn't change that playing with Maguire is at the detriment of how ETH wants to play. You make it sound black and white when it really isn't. Did ETH maybe make a mistake sticking with Maguire when Varane was out of form? Maybe but we don't know what happened behind closed doors but at the time everything was such a mess with injuries to pretty much all the back 4 it was going to chaos anyway.
 
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I don't think I've ever seen man utd play 'aggressive pressing with a high line' in the 2 years ten hag has been there, with or without maguire, are you just chucking out buzzwords used by 'pundits' to describe top level managers Adam?
 
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adam cool dude said:
He willfully chose to pick a player because the other options were either injured or out of form/not match fit. He picked the only option that was reliable and at least having a bit of form. It still doesn't change that with Maguire playing ETH cannot play the type of football he wants. He is trying to make best of a bad situation. He chose to pick Maguire because of the issues surrounding Varane for what ever reason. That choice is on the manager yes. Maguire was our best CB this season but that says a lot about how bad it was. It still doesn't change that playing with Maguire is at the detriment of how ETH wants to play. You make it sound black and white when it really isn't. Did ETH maybe make a mistake sticking with Maguire when Varane was out of form? Maybe but we don't know what happened behind closed doors but at the time everything was such a mess with injuries to pretty much all the back 4 it was going to chaos anyway.
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That's it, keep banging the unfit/out of form drum :D
 
BaZ87 said:
...ETH is to blame for how Utd play. He was given free rein to buy the players he wanted and having spent near £400m net in 2 seasons it's hard to argue that he doesn't have the players to play how he wants to.
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Yeah you see this is the issue, managers are going to be judged on the players they bring to the club and in ETH case, players like Anthony who he had for 2 years before signing him, just make his judgement look suspect.
 
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MartinPrince said:
Yeah you see this is the issue, managers are going to be judged on the players they bring to the club and in ETH case, players like Anthony who he had for 2 years before signing him, just make his judgement look suspect.
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And Mount, why did we buy Mount?

And Onana, waste of space. "Plays out from the back" but is **** at everything else, bar stopping shots he should stop - that's his job.

Did ETH actually buy those players or were all that he had to choose from? Either them or nothing situation?

Is United's bad recruitment down to ETH? His philosophy yes, agreed.

I'm not saying ETH hasn't made errors, he definitely has.
 
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MartinPrince said:
Yeah you see this is the issue, managers are going to be judged on the players they bring to the club and in ETH case, players like Anthony who he had for 2 years before signing him, just make his judgement look suspect.
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He wanted a left footed right sided player. My guess is the support above him did little to nothing to help or direct him and Antony was just a stupid overpriced panic buy. Just like Casemiro was because the FDJ move failed to materialise.

No doubt ETH made a mistake but Arteta spent 55m on Ramsdale as well who was a waste of money. No manager gets it right all the time.
 
adam cool dude said:
He wanted a left footed right sided player. My guess is the support above him did little to nothing to help or direct him and Antony was just a stupid overpriced panic buy. Just like Casemiro was because the FDJ move failed to materialise.

No doubt ETH made a mistake but Arteta spent 55m on Ramsdale as well who was a waste of money. No manager gets it right all the time.
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They were all panic buys after a poor start to last season.
 
sigma said:
And Mount, why did we buy Mount?

And Onana, waste of space. "Plays out from the back" but is **** at everything else, bar stopping shots he should stop - that's his job.

Did ETH actually buy those players or were all that he had to choose from? Either them or nothing situation?

Is United's bad recruitment down to ETH? His philosophy yes, agreed.

I'm not saying ETH hasn't made errors, he definitely has.
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Mount we cannot really judge because he has had no game time.

Hojlund has got 1:2.68 games which isn't bad for a first breakthrough season considering all the rubbish.

Martinez is a quality player but has had too many injuries.

Onana hate is a bit unwarranted. He made plenty of errors initially but has been strong since the mid point of the season. His save % is number 1 in the league.

Casemiro was fantastic in his first season and a lot of hate for the tail end of this one is a bit unwarranted considering he has been playing centre back.

Antony hasn't worked out but he still has better return than 100 million Grealish so even well run clubs like City still make dud buys.
 
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adam cool dude said:
Mount we cannot really judge because he has had no game time.

Hojlund has got 1:268 which isn't bad for a first breakthrough season considering all the rubbish.

Martinez is a quality player but has had too many injuries.

Onana hate is a bit unwarranted. He made plenty of errors initially but has been strong since the mid point of the season.

Casemiro was fantastic in his first season and a lot of hate for the tail end of this one is a bit unwarranted considering he has been playing centre back.

Antony hasn't worked out but he still has better return than 100 million Grealish so even we'll run clubs like City still make dud buys.
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Mount is ****, he had one good season for Chelsea? Two? Do we even need him? Maybe if Bruno leaves (then we truly will be up **** creek) he will play more.

Onana is ****, he was error prone before we bought him and he's still error prone, and always will be. He has no accuracy on his goal kick either, perhaps that's why he is better with short passes? Because he can't kick it accurately over long distances?

Casemiro too old now, only going one way, especially if he's the one doing all the work in midfield.

Hojlund young, can't expect loads from him in a poor team.
 
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adam cool dude said:
No doubt ETH made a mistake but Arteta spent 55m on Ramsdale as well who was a waste of money. No manager gets it right all the time.
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adam cool dude said:
Antony hasn't worked out but he still has better return than 100 million Grealish so even well run clubs like City still make dud buys.
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Ramsdale cost £25-30m and in what respect has Antony had a better return than Grealish? Despite being much more of a midfielder than out and out forward, Grealish gets a goal or assist every 260 odd minutes for City compared to Antony's 315.
 
adam cool dude said:
Grealish was a good buy for 100 million then?
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Not especially but I'm not sure what the relevance of that is to my post :confused: A couple of times you've made this Antony/Grealish comment and I wondered how you were determining that Antony's produced a better return than Grealish. I assume you're not using goals & assists as despite not being a proper forward, Grealish has out performed Antony by quite a distance in those stakes.
 
BaZ87 said:
Not especially but I'm not sure what the relevance of that is to my post :confused: A couple of times you've made this Antony/Grealish comment and I wondered how you were determining that Antony's produced a better return than Grealish. I assume you're not using goals & assists as despite not being a proper forward, Grealish has out performed Antony by quite a distance in those stakes.
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How anyone can try and spin Antony as being anything other than garbage is beyond me. The lads keen as mustard but his ability is nowhere near premier league levels.
 
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