Poll: Erik ten Hag Sack Watch & Next Manchester United Manager? Sacked. Ruben Amorim appointed.

To sack or not to sack

  • Total voters
    129
GK stats are a bit useless imo, and are not any kind of adequate proof of their quality, because it’s really all about what’s in front of them. Onana made the most saves because the defence were so atrocious and let teams shoot for fun, and at the other end of the scale, Raya won the golden glove because he had the best defence in front of him.
 
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It can be useful to compare goals per shot and that way you get a fairer comparison. Using some simple examples that removes the poor defence equation. Note this is a generic example and not meant to represent any current goalkeeper.

If goalkeeper A only has 50 saves to make all season and let’s in 20 of them. He has a 60% saves per shot.

If goalkeeper B has 200 saves to make all season and let’s in 40. He has 80% saves per shot ratio.

Goalkeeper B is clearly a better shot stopper but is in a worse team.
 
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I think it works to a point, but then you get to quality of shot. Goalkeeper A might've had a high line defence which kept being cut open so that 60% is all pretty much one on ones, and Goalkeeper B might have a deep defence which is saving pot shots from 30yrds away.

The XG prevented seems to be the best comparison since it factors in the quality of the shot faced. Which actually puts Onana higher up that you'd expect.
www.givemesport.com

Every Premier League goalkeeper ranked by how many goals they prevented in 2023/24

Andre Onana was statistically much better than both Alisson Becker and David Raya this season
www.givemesport.com www.givemesport.com

Though on the flipside. Trying to get a stat for "Errors leading to Goals" from the PL website has Onana nowhere to be found. No idea how they rank errors (i had to filter on United to find Onana with a stat of 1), but perhaps it's because most of his high profile ones were in the CL
pZY6uB4.png
 
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I'm still in the keep camp, give him another year.

Jettison some of the expensive dead wood over the summer and get a few decent younger players in at CB and midfield (easier said than done, but at least start).

Get all the rest of the football operation like Ashworth in and settled.

If there's going to be a new manager, go through the full process with the organisation in place and get the right man for the long run, not a knee jerk reaction.
 
robfosters said:
GK stats are a bit useless imo, and are not any kind of adequate proof of their quality, because it’s really all about what’s in front of them. Onana made the most saves because the defence were so atrocious and let teams shoot for fun, and at the other end of the scale, Raya won the golden glove because he had the best defence in front of him.
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Yeah, of all stats I think GK stats are the hardest to put much stock in. Onana has let in a few shockers this season but they probably wouldn't go down as such statistically. Its a bit like VAR and the "actual mistakes vs mistakes they admit". The goal he let in vs City in the FA Cup final was a bad mistake. Would it go down as one though? The other thing is that one of the reasons Allisson is such a good keeper is his understanding of position, angles and timing. Thats one of the biggest criticisms against Onana. It might not look like he had a chance to save a shot but a different keeper would have been in the right place to make the save.
 
Shamikebab said:
If he'd made shockers of course they'd show up statistically, he'd have conceded more goals than his post shot expected goals. But he hasn't, he's conceded less.
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He's generally pretty good but does let in some absolute howlers where you wonder what exactly he was doing position-wise.

If he could cut them out, he could be a great keeper.
 
I like Onana and think he's done pretty well on the whole.

However, I think he's one of those keepers that will always have a howler in him at the worst possible moment. :(
 
dont think he has done well on the whole, any improvement over David de Gea ? would have been cheaper keeping De Gea and sole reason got dumped out of the group stage in UCL , in defence of Onana its first season in new side and league so really needs to show improvement next season and cut out the mistakes
 
uscool said:
dont think he has done well on the whole, any improvement over David de Gea ? would have been cheaper keeping De Gea and sole reason got dumped out of the group stage in UCL , in defence of Onana its first season in new side and league so really needs to show improvement next season and cut out the mistakes
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This isn't really the thread for goalkeeper discussion, but yes, a £45m upgrade on De Gea he most certainly isn't.
 
Robbo said:
This isn't really the thread for goalkeeper discussion, but yes, a £45m upgrade on De Gea he most certainly isn't.
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I’m most certainly on the ‘Onana is pants’ side of the fan debate but I’ll allow him one more season - he might be a bit like a deer caught in headlights this season with the amount shots he’s had to face. Maybe with a less porous defence/midfield he’ll be less error prone - I highly doubt it as he just looks weird half the time but as we’re most likely stuck with him I need to try and find a positive somewhere :p :cry:
 
Still nothing further on this. It's difficult to draw any conclusions, but if ETH does stay, it looks bad that they've basically let this drag on... a statement of some sort could have been issued, even if it was just to a journalist.

It doesn't take this long to do a review, they'll have been reviewing every game as it happened for the past 6 months or so.

We don't know what's going on but it's creating a more negative perception of INEOS, than positive, IMO...
 
Robbo said:
Still nothing further on this. It's difficult to draw any conclusions, but if ETH does stay, it looks bad that they've basically let this drag on... a statement of some sort could have been issued, even if it was just to a journalist.

It doesn't take this long to do a review, they'll have been reviewing every game as it happened for the past 6 months or so.

We don't know what's going on but it's creating a more negative perception of INEOS, than positive, IMO...
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Im starting to think Ineos are doing this on purpose. Leaking that they are speaking to other managers and their agents and dragging out the whole sorry affair not telling him one way or the other in the hope that ETH says **** this, I’m off and Ineos save themselves £10m. The blatant disrespect is disgraceful
 
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I think you guys put too much faith in Ineos doing a good job about anything.

They have owned Nice for half a decade and they have pretty much gone nowhere. The French league has got to be one of the easiest to make a positive impact in.
 
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Shamikebab said:
Who? Our CEO who hasn't started yet, our DoF who hasn't started yet or our Technical Director who has only been there a month or so?
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By all accounts they'd decided to sack him a couple of weeks ago - how could they have done that if nobody is doing anything?
 
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