Poll: Erik ten Hag Sack Watch & Next Manchester United Manager? Sacked. Ruben Amorim appointed.

To sack or not to sack

  • Total voters
    129
sigma said:
Assuming even 50% of that is true.

Does that sounds like Mickey mouse FC or Well-oiled machine FC?
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I really don't understand this. United have 10x more circus and speculation around everything we do. I personally don't see anything wrong with the way they have handled this.

This wasn't a simple situation. Under normal circumstances EtH would have been sacked. If we had less injuries he would have been sacked. If we lost the FA cup he would have been sacked. He won the FA cup and had ridiculous injury issues. Both these things complicated matters.

What should we have done? Picked a manager that they didn't think would be a good fit or be long term just to get it over with? Not interviewed potential replacements until the end of the season? Sacked him before the end of the season.

There is almost never a good way to do these things unless its really simple. Its rarely simple at United and we are changing the back room staff en-masse and most of them haven't even started yet. Making big changes and plans before that happens just seems like madness to me.
 
fez said:
I really don't understand this. United have 10x more circus and speculation around everything we do. I personally don't see anything wrong with the way they have handled this.

This wasn't a simple situation. Under normal circumstances EtH would have been sacked. If we had less injuries he would have been sacked. If we lost the FA cup he would have been sacked. He won the FA cup and had ridiculous injury issues. Both these things complicated matters.

What should we have done? Picked a manager that they didn't think would be a good fit or be long term just to get it over with? Not interviewed potential replacements until the end of the season? Sacked him before the end of the season.

There is almost never a good way to do these things unless its really simple. Its rarely simple at United and we are changing the back room staff en-masse and most of them haven't even started yet. Making big changes and plans before that happens just seems like madness to me.
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There's too much to write now but will do later.

I agree there's no good way to do it but management of leaks etc is one big issue here.

The crux is we likely now have a manager that knows the senior management have no faith in. It all should have been handled behind closed doors.
 
sigma said:
There's too much to write now but will do later.

I agree there's no good way to do it but management of leaks etc is one big issue here.

The crux is we likely now have a manager that knows the senior management have no faith in. It all should have been handled behind closed doors.
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I think people put far too much stock in "no smoke without fire". If you were to believe even half the stuff written about United you would A) have completely contradictory information half the time. B) Think that United are run like a circus and every other club is a well oiled machine that does everything sensibly and behind closed doors.

As evidenced by the amount of traffic this thread gets from opposition fans and the sheer number of United articles vs anyone else on social media etc, United are simply box office for better or (usually) worse. You can't manage leaks in 2024 when everyone has a phone. When you have to talk to people face to face and meet them. When there is absolutely no consequences to making **** up and then the next day making the complete opposite up and 95% of people don't even notice or care that you have done it.
 
fez said:
What should we have done?
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If we accept that Utd began their review well before the end of the season (and lets be fair, they'd be mad not to have done and that is when the stories of this review began to emerge) then I'd suggest a) not letting the world know you're carrying out a review and b) going into the review with a clear idea of what you're looking at and for so it's not taking 6+ weeks to complete it.

Only had handful of people at the top of the club needed to know that this review was being carried out however weeks before the end of the season it was common knowledge, being reported everywhere. That's not just wild speculation from the press. Every journo close to Utd were reporting it and you can guarantee that the news was either directly briefed to them or when they asked for confirmation of the stories doing the rounds it was confirmed by their sources at the club.

Oli Kay wrote something in The Athletic regarding Utd's confused approach - how do Utd go from considering Thomas Frank to De Zerbi to Tuchel and whoever in between? In the article Kay quotes Ratacliffe stating the club will decide a style and then the manager will work within that style but yet Utd couldn't have possibly picked more different managers to speak to. Now I can understand that the Cup win changes the views of some supporters but a single game shouldn't be a huge factor in what Utd are expecting from a manager over the next x years, particularly when he's been at the club 2 years already. Had Utd had a clear idea of how they were going to judge both ETH's performance and his suitability for the job moving forwards or that of a new manager, Utd don't end up speaking to every Tom, Dick and Harry, with this story rumbling on for weeks.
 
BaZ87 said:
If we accept that Utd began their review well before the end of the season (and lets be fair, they'd be mad not to have done and that is when the stories of this review began to emerge) then I'd suggest a) not letting the world know you're carrying out a review and b) going into the review with a clear idea of what you're looking at and for so it's not taking 6+ weeks to complete it.

Only had handful of people at the top of the club needed to know that this review was being carried out however weeks before the end of the season it was common knowledge, being reported everywhere. That's not just wild speculation from the press. Every journo close to Utd were reporting it and you can guarantee that the news was either directly briefed to them or when they asked for confirmation of the stories doing the rounds it was confirmed by their sources at the club.

Oli Kay wrote something in The Athletic regarding Utd's confused approach - how do Utd go from considering Thomas Frank to De Zerbi to Tuchel and whoever in between? In the article Kay quotes Ratacliffe stating the club will decide a style and then the manager will work within that style but yet Utd couldn't have possibly picked more different managers to speak to. Now I can understand that the Cup win changes the views of some supporters but a single game shouldn't be a huge factor in what Utd are expecting from a manager over the next x years, particularly when he's been at the club 2 years already. Had Utd had a clear idea of how they were going to judge both ETH's performance and his suitability for the job moving forwards or that of a new manager, Utd don't end up speaking to every Tom, Dick and Harry, with this story rumbling on for weeks.
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Again what is the source that all the athletic are reporting is true? There is so much crap reported by sports journalism these days it is just a joke.
 
My issue with all these claims is "why would they do that". What do United gain by leaking to the press they are searching for a new manager or conducting a review.

I'm sure stuff does leak but I wouldn't believe a large chunk of it.
 
fez said:
My issue with all these claims is "why would they do that". What do United gain by leaking to the press they are searching for a new manager or conducting a review.

I'm sure stuff does leak but I wouldn't believe a large chunk of it.
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To be honest, I’d believe a lot of the leaks are true. It’s United, there have always been leaks galore and now a lot of the staff have just been threatened/offered to sod off if they’re not happy… so, expect to hear about what Ratcliffe has for breakfast and what polish ETH uses on his bonce in the coming weeks.
 
adam cool dude said:
Again what is the source that all the athletic are reporting is true? There is so much crap reported by sports journalism these days it is just a joke.
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Deny everything. How do we know the stories that Utd have decided to keep him are true?

And it's not only The Athletic that claimed Utd spoke to several different managers. My mention of The Athletic article wasn't re the news that Utd spoke to x, y and z but the journalist highlighting the confused approach Utd took during the process.
fez said:
My issue with all these claims is "why would they do that". What do United gain by leaking to the press they are searching for a new manager or conducting a review.

I'm sure stuff does leak but I wouldn't believe a large chunk of it.
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Why would somebody leak the news that Utd were planning to bring back Greenwood? Or any number of other stories that have emerged over the years that are proven to be true? Utd is a massive club with a huge number of employees and if something isn't kept between a select few individuals then it's a given that the news will get out and once it's out (see the Greenwood example), there's little good trying to deny it as more and more details will continue to emerge.
 
adam cool dude said:
One source says Greenwood is coming back to United. Another source says he is going to Juve for 40 million. I rest my case.

Then in a couple of days he will end up going on loan to PSG or something else daft.
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I'm worried about asking you anything else, fearing this could go very Matt Le Tissier very soon :p

Surely over the years you can get an understanding of which journalists report in good faith and which are just filling pages.
 
BaZ87 said:
Why would somebody leak the news that Utd were planning to bring back Greenwood? Or any number of other stories that have emerged over the years that are proven to be true? Utd is a massive club with a huge number of employees and if something isn't kept between a select few individuals then it's a given that the news will get out and once it's out (see the Greenwood example), there's little good trying to deny it as more and more details will continue to emerge.
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There are some things that make sense. Greenwood being one of them. Gauge public reaction. They don't need to do that when it comes to Ten Hag. The sacking/not sacking of a manager isn't something that you are going to have dozens of people making public statements about or damaging the reputation of the club.

I just don't believe that most of the leaks that come out are true. Just because someone at the club says something to a journalist also doesn't make it true. Doesn't mean it wasn't a throwaway comment they heard, a joke or a misunderstanding. Who knows.
 
fez said:
I think people put far too much stock in "no smoke without fire". If you were to believe even half the stuff written about United you would A) have completely contradictory information half the time. B) Think that United are run like a circus and every other club is a well oiled machine that does everything sensibly and behind closed doors.

As evidenced by the amount of traffic this thread gets from opposition fans and the sheer number of United articles vs anyone else on social media etc, United are simply box office for better or (usually) worse. You can't manage leaks in 2024 when everyone has a phone. When you have to talk to people face to face and meet them. When there is absolutely no consequences to making **** up and then the next day making the complete opposite up and 95% of people don't even notice or care that you have done it.
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You'd be pretty amazed how well stuff in the games industry doesn't leak (most of the time), given the number of people that know sensitive information people are interested in. If you leak stuff you get properly black-balled and will have major trouble getting future employment, not to mention the lawsuits to deal with. It's a culture problem that can be fixed.
 
BaZ87 said:
I'm worried about asking you anything else, fearing this could go very Matt Le Tissier very soon :p

Surely over the years you can get an understanding of which journalists report in good faith and which are just filling pages.
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I am not saying some leaks are not true but the amount of crap that does come out it is very difficult to decide what is or isn't true so I just ignore it until the actual facts come out.

I find it very difficult to believe that Ineos are that inept that everything they have done in the past three weeks has been leaked straight to the media whereas the reality is that most of it has just been made up rubbish.
 
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Ten Hag has been speaking to Dutch TV. Hard to judge, but he doesn't sound thrilled. Would be funny if he refuses to extend his contract :p

Speaking to broadcaster NPO, the 54-year-old said: "Everyone has heard that they have spoken to several candidates. That's no secret.

"In the Netherlands that is not done. You are not even allowed to talk to another club if there is a current trainer there. But in England the rules and laws are different.

"In the end, they came to the conclusion that they have the best trainer."

"As in any organisation, there is an evaluation and that seems very sensible to me," Ten Hag said.

"We had a good discussion and various topics were discussed. One of the conclusions is that we will extend the contract, but we still have to reach an agreement."
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Benofacter said:
insane to give him a new contract right now, wait to see how its going at Christmas.
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Why? Hes entering the last year of his contract. Not giving him a contract is essentially telling everyone that you have zero faith in him. If he does manage to turn it around and you want to keep him then you are suddenly over a barrel and he can demand a much better contract.

I imagine that he will be getting a 2-3 year contract with escape hatches based on performance. I would much rather that than a dead man walking for a season.
 
not really, id keep open the dialog for the new deal but totally string it along and see how the new season goes.....i remember Ole getting a new contract then sacked a few months later. My expectation is that this lot have better foresight than the previous regime.
 
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