Poll: Erik ten Hag Sack Watch & Next Manchester United Manager?

[Robbo]

As things are set to intensify this week, I thought we should have a focused thread rather than using the FA Cup and club threads.

Current situation - INEOS conducting a review this week, with ETH set to be sacked, according to well placed sources. However, the FA Cup win could have thrown a spanner in the works...

I think the FA Cup victory did raise some valid questions, are there signs he can actually build a team from here? Has our terrible season just been down to bad luck and injuries?

We will see what unfolds...

::

It's just recently been revealed that Kieran McKenna is set to sign a new deal with Ipswich, he was one of the big favourites to take over at Man Utd or Chelsea.

That leaves us with Tuchel, Pochettino and Thomas Frank - or someone else?

 

[Robbo]

The FA Cup win - while brilliant - is just too late in my view. We have had to endure terrible football all season, with injuries being blamed constantly, despite ETH making no effort to try and adapt his system. Instead, he put a team out there that looked like it wasn't being coached at times. It really was atrocious.

I accept the injuries absolutely didn't help, and I know the football structure above him has been very disjointed and subpar - until now (hopefully). Even taking that into account, he just hasn't shown enough for me. I think we lost something like 6 of our first 10 games - with a pretty much fully fit squad. What's to say next season won't just be more of the same? Because we won a domestic cup competition? That doesn't really indicate anything truly significant.

I believe Pochettino is a more suitable manager, a better character and he tries to play positive football. He's not perfect - but no manager is. Tuchel again is better than both Poch and ETH on paper, maybe INEOS will go straight to him instead?

I'm not sure long term projects really exist at the top level of football now. Pep and Klopp are the outstanding managers of the past decade, both had proven more than ETH when they joined Man City and Liverpool. Comparisons to Fergie are just simply irrelevant and ridiculous, he was a one-off in so many ways.

Saying that, if the new football guys at the club think with a few new players, ETH is the right man, I will pray they are right and see how he gets on.

 

[Robbo]

But there will always be injuries? You can't just refuse to adapt and decide to lose instead.

Total football stuff all sounds great in theory - I'm not seeing any evidence of it - even with a fully fit squad.

 

[Robbo]

The MEN did a poll after the 4-0 defeat to Crystal Palace, and 39% of fans wanted ETH to stay.

Same poll after the FA Cup final - 78% want him to stay.



Fan opinion seems all over the place - but this shouldn’t matter. The ‘football men’ at INEOS should be looking at everything in detail, and making decisions based on that, not just one result. Fan opinion is very volatile, and they don’t see the inner workings of the club.

 

[Robbo]

Before the Cup final the fans pretty unanimously backed ETH.

Absolutely not. I’d say it was 50/50 at best, but it’s very difficult to tell.

 

[Robbo]

Maybe a mod could add a poll to this thread? @BaZ87

The problem is, all the Liverpool and Arsenal fans will vote in favour of us keeping him

 

[Robbo]

I'm not so sure about that, they'd want to let the dust settle on the cup win (as good sources have mentioned).

If INEOS have changed their mind solely on the back of that game, we are in trouble. A cup run doesn't really show anything, as good as it was.

The league should be the barometer, and we've gone spectacularly backwards, breaking every possible negative record in the process.

 

[Robbo]

Genuine question here but what will change in a year with regards to available managers? There are perhaps only Klopp and Pep who are guarantees of an utterly elite manager who will be very very likely to succeed. Who isn't available right now who might be in a year?

Exactly. Who would a 'stand out' manager even be? Pep & Klopp were considered the best. Ancelotti? Don't think that's likely.

Tuchel and Pochettino are strong alternatives, both without a club.

 

[Robbo]

Poch is at best a sidestep with serious question marks. Tuchel would be a Conte, short term manager who falls out everywhere. Paying 10m for the privilege of either of those is a mistake.

Is there a manager you would consider an obvious upgrade though? I don't think there are many great managers out there.

Most big teams are having to take a punt - that's what Arsenal did, Liverpool seem to be doing, Bayern and Chelsea too.

 

[Robbo]

I'd be more interested in an 'out there' choice. Personally I'm happy with whatever the football people we've employed decide. We've been begging for this structure so I'm prepared to give whoever they decide on a shot.

I'd agree with that.

Welcome on board, Gareth.

 

[Robbo]

Still no announcement from the club either way.

One thing to note - I think if they decide to keep him, they’ll have to offer him a contract extension too, as it expires after next season.

 

[Robbo]

Review still ongoing. Don't think we can read into it either way. I suppose they are looking at whether injuries etc can justify his many managerial failures this season.

Not quite sure I follow though, surely they could have already been reviewing the season up to the FA Cup final, and factor that in afterwards...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1796256993008644387

 

[Robbo]

These constant stories and briefings tell you one thing and that's Utd want to sack him. The world isn't constantly being told that you're doing a big review and deciding whether to keep your manager if you genuinely want or intend to keep that manager next season. These stories just undermine the manager and let everybody know, including the players, that you don't think he's very good.

The only possible way he stays is if Utd decide the right replacement isn't available and it's a case of better the devil you know until the right guy becomes available.

I was thinking that too. Ever since last Friday the silence from the club has been notable - they were clearly planning to sack him, and the further silence just proves it.

He even had to face down the world's media and answer constant questions about his future, and the club say nothing.

On top of that, the club have been interviewing managers with a view to replacing him... what more do you need to know.

Good. Sounds like a rare example of common sense at the club.

Don't see any reason why you need to give him an extension. If you keep him, set your targets for the year, talk about extending the contract if he hits them.

It sends the wrong message and undermines the authority of the manager if he's only got 1 year left, IMO. It would be a bit like putting him on trial, and that doesn't really work in these situations.

 

[Robbo]

People will twist any article to suit their preconceived view. I think what is clear at this point is the media have no idea what is going on, a far cry from what happened under the Glazers. They're just repeating the same points in their daily Utd articles now for engagement.

Quite possibly, but James Ducker will look an idiot if they sack him tomorrow. He's one of the better journalists.

 

[Robbo]

I think we're just going round in circles now, myself included.

The league form is there in black and white, and actually the stats don't reflect quite how bad it was. Based on expected points we should have been 14th I think - and given how bad the performances were, I can't see any reason to doubt that.

Fortunately, I think INEOS would have backed him by now if they weren't desperate to get rid. They're likely just getting things in place.

 

[Robbo]

ETH's biggest problem isn't the poor results but the standard of performances and the lack of a style of play. Even when Utd have won, more often than not they've still played terribly and not only don't Utd play a front foot, positive style of football that you expect at a big side, nobody can tell you how Utd play. Even under Ole (at least until his final season) Utd had a way of playing - Utd were a counter attacking side. They'd sit back and hit sides on the break. After 2 years at the club, Utd still have no style of play under ETH. They just go out and hope for the best, typically get outplayed by whoever they're up against and rely on a Fernandes or Rashford to pop up with a goal.

This is the main thing for me. 2 seasons is more than enough time to show you are implementing some sort of style. He was even able to sign several players to try and help him play whatever this supposed style is - but everything has gone rapidly downhill. He can try and blame injuries for this, but even with most of the squad available things have hardly improved much. People can point to his Ajax side but that's in the distant past now.

 

[Robbo]

We have missed Shaw for a huge part of the season and he is a big part of Rashfords form it seems. Missing your best CB for 90% of the season and the other one for 50% of the season is awful. Casemiro has fallen off a high cliff and there are no remotely passable backups so we have been missing most of our defence and the other usual lynchpin of defensive stability as well. We only have a single striker who is very young, tool a while to get going and just as he hit some good form he got injured.

I think that if we didn't have such ridiculous injuries this season I would feel more confident about passing final judgement on him. City are a well oiled machine and they struggled massively for the few games Rodri was injured. Liverpool struggled massively when they had an injury crisis a few years back and that was with an entire club that knew the plan and had done for years.

I don't think EtH has come out of this season smelling of roses but I also think he has had an absolutely rum time of things. He should probably have been far more pragmatic but I assume he kept hoping things would change and click if he stuck with it rather than adapting, going nowhere when it comes to the football he wants to play and then still finding himself with most of the same issues. I don't think the players gave up on him this season. Last season the league position probably flattered us but I think that is far more representative of where we are with EtH than this season.

I understand what you're saying, but we haven't exactly been great with a stronger squad either. His failure to make any adaptations needs to be looked at too, he can't simply say "my centre back and left back are injured so the season is a write off".

First game of the season, more or less first choice team, and we struggled badly against Wolves and were lucky to win.
Second game, same thing, strong lineup, lost 2-0 to Spurs.
Third game, another strong lineup, struggled past Notts Forest 3-2.
Fourth, lost to Arsenal 3-1.
Fifth, lost 1-3 to Brighton at home.

People will just point to Onana making errors to defend this - a goalkeeper he wanted.

Just looking over general results and lineups, things don't really improve regardless of the team he puts out. It's always a painful struggle and has been all season. I'm just so tired of it. Every game is seared into my brain and most of them were just awful. I also accept that with the best possible manager, and everyone fit, we aren't going to be winning the Premier League. IMO he just hasn't shown enough, even taking into account the mitigating factors.

If INEOS look at everything and decide with a reset and some new players, he's the right man, then I will be behind that - but I suspect he'll be facing the sack before November as very little will have changed. I'll hope to be wrong!

 

[Robbo]

You completely forget that Hojlund was out injured for the beginning, Martinez was not match fit. He had to go off and have an operation after the Brighton game, Onana was new to the league and made a crap tonne of errors. Luke Shaw was out injured after only the second game. Malacia out injured all season.

Our back 4 was different for near enough every one of those games too not to mention the squad in general was chopped and changed due to injuries. It was terrible from the get go.

Just in those 5 games you had different CB pairings of Maguire, Martinez, Lindelof, Varane. Right backs playing left back and no recognised striker.

My point is that there’s very little evidence anywhere that he can do a good job. Ajax experience isn’t hugely relevant IMO.

FA Cup win beating Man City - yes, great. Let’s hire Roberto Martinez…

 

[Robbo]

21/22 we finished with 58 points. Our lowest points total since Fergie. 22/23 We ended up with 75 points which is our second best points total since Fergie which is great for his first year, 2 cup finals, one cup winner and played the most games out of everyone bar Man City in Europe. Totally bossed Barcelona over two legs who were eventual La Liga winners. We beat Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and Man City at Home. He did all that whilst dealing with Ronaldo and having Sancho take months off to "sort himself out". His win percentage was in the mid to late 60's. You could see the lack of mentality (Liverpool away hammering and Europe League) but that is mainly on the players.

I would call that a very good first season. To totally disregard the injuries this season and he should "cope" is just being short sighted as he had shown he was more than capable in his first.

The first season was largely good, although there wasn't really a style of play that I could see. A few very bleak moments that we won't speak of (7-0).

I am not disregarding injuries, I am merely saying that in my view they don't excuse the consistently terrible performances, a complete lack of playing style, or any sort of team identity.

The fact INEOS have likely decided to sack him means they don't like what they see from inside the club either. Hopefully we'll have an announcement soon either way and we can stop going round in circles as I've said before.

 

[Robbo]

His win % at United is 57.9%.

Poch in the same league has 54.3% (Spurs) and 50.1% with Chelsea.

Tuchel has 60% with Chelsea.

Much of muchness.

Not that the squads/clubs are comparable.

What are we expecting from a new manager apart from "a style of play"?

I'm not sure win percentage is hugely relevant here, the truly impressive example is SAF but that's because it's across 1500 games!

Our football over the past season has been some of the worst I have ever seen. I expect a manager who can deliver something better. I think that's fair.

The fact that INEOS are dragging theyr feet and there and the club is leaking stories like a sieve doesn't bode well IMO.

They need to decide something soon, all of this rampant speculation isn't good and whatever happens now it looks like they were about to sack him and didn't. They could have come out and addressed it.