Escort Cosworth

I quite like this car, or at least I did, but after reading some of what Fox has said he's quite convinced me that there really is no reason to like this thoughly ordinary car, my misatake. Burn them all.

Its not that it has no point and should be burnt.

Its just that the "cosseh innit" reputation isnt actually founded. They command a huge premium on the second hand market. Because they were awesome in the BTCC ? nope never raced. Amazing Rally success ? nope they won a few rallies but never a world title.

Is it because of the limited production run ? no there was over 7000 produced and amazing special edition imprezas like the RB5 are a 1/3 or a 1/4 of the price of an escort, and only 444 were made.

Its just overhyped and over priced. Not that it doesnt have a point.
 
Its not that it has no point and should be burnt.

Its just that the "cosseh innit" reputation isnt actually founded. They command a huge premium on the second hand market. Because they were awesome in the BTCC ? nope never raced. Amazing Rally success ? nope they won a few rallies but never a world title.

Is it because of the limited production run ? no there was over 7000 produced and amazing special edition imprezas like the RB5 are a 1/3 or a 1/4 of the price of an escort, and only 444 were made.

Its just overhyped and over priced. Not that it doesnt have a point.

I wouldn't say overhyped although I understand the "cosseh innit" aspect, but because it wasn't sucessful in those fields or even entered doesn't mean it isn't a competative car. Again, something that isn't really accepted or understood here. It didn't have too, its big brother the RS500 done that job for it (the Ford Cosworth brand). The WTC had to even change its rules to effectively make the RS500 not able to run, to give others a chance because the motor outfit was that strong.

But no, we have to accept on face value that the smaller road runner is crap by default, unless it meets stipulations that an internet forum would like before hand. ******* nonesense.

That is without stepping into the mirky world of modified ones.

It is overpriced for me personally. By I think trying to make out it is a dull, boring normal production line car is biased, blinkered, uneducated and wrong.

Still have the RS500 any day of the week. Proper car. Or an RS200.
 
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okay then it was the yellow/blue michellin Scalextric cosworth that made it so popular.

interesting facts: my friends dad owned one of the last cosworth escorts off the production line with deluxe pack or whatever, in deep green colour. my friend got jacked at knifepoint one morning before school as he was opening the car on his drive. and the car stolen.

2nd interesting fact, another friend, his dad has an rs200 replica kit that he made in his garage that has never, as far as i know, seen the light of day in approx 15 years.
 
Its just overhyped and over priced. Not that it doesnt have a point.

Overhyped, perhaps.

Overpriced, no.

It might be Overpriced vs its direct competition (in your eyes), but at the end of the day its worth what people are willing to pay for it, the price follows market demand, demand is high so the price reflects this, its not like people are asking 15k for them and loads are sat around waiting to be sold.

A Lamborghini Countach is a rubbish car, why are they still worth 50 - 90k (which is more than a diablo)?
 
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Poor Unloved RB5 :(

http://www.pistonheads.com/SALES/1773437.htm

Only 444 ever made, Named after the great Richard Burns, 13th best drivers car ever.

Only 5k.

amazing special edition imprezas like the RB5 are a 1/3 or a 1/4 of the price of an escort

The RB5 is merely a UK Turbo 2000 with both the Prodrive packs (Engine and Suspension). The only thing that makes it a limited edition is the badge.

The only really special limited edition Impreza, the 22B, does command silly money. 20k plus for a good one.
 
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The RB5 is merely a UK Turbo 2000 with both the Prodrive packs (Engine and Suspension). The only thing that makes it a limited edition is the badge.

The only really special limited edition Impreza, the 22B, does command silly money. 20k plus for a good one.

And the fact that 444 were made. Which makes it a limited run.

Agreed on the 22B being the only real special limited edition.
 
Overhyped, perhaps.

Overpriced, no.

It might be Overpriced vs its direct competition (in your eyes), but at the end of the day its worth what people are willing to pay for it, the price follows market demand, demand is high so the price reflects this, its not like people are asking 15k for them and loads are sat around waiting to be sold.

A Lamborghini Countach is a rubbish car, why are they still worth 50 - 90k (which is more than a diablo)?

Don't, you'll break the motors forum with logic like this.

:p
 
And the fact that 444 were made. Which makes it a limited run.

When I said 'The only thing that makes it a limited edition is the badge' I was talking about the car itself, not how many they made. They simply glued an 'RB5' badge to 444 cars and called it a limited run.
 
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The RB5 is merely a UK Turbo 2000 with both the Prodrive packs (Engine and Suspension). The only thing that makes it a limited edition is the badge.

The only really special limited edition Impreza, the 22B, does command silly money. 20k plus for a good one.

Didn't even have the engine and suspension packas as standard :)

Engine package was the WR Sport verstion, and then if you wanted the suspension it was another extra on top of that.

I love the Escort but totally see how people can say it's not worth the expense for one based on hard facts/technical ability.

But people don't buy them for that, they buy them for everything else most of the time.

And if we're comparing them to Imprezas etc then as Fox says the 22B is probably the best one to use as a comparison. Different enough to a standard model to warrant being limited etc, and look at how much a decent one of those costs today.
 
I'd love to have a 22B.

Me too. I was lucky enough to drive one going back a few years, it was when I had my Scooby which was running basic 'stage one' mods and around 260bhp. Going from my car to the 22B was like night and day, it just felt so much more 'alive', and the torque spread of the engine was just sublime.

Didn't even have the engine and suspension packas as standard :)

Engine package was the WR Sport verstion, and then if you wanted the suspension it was another extra on top of that.

Really? My understanding of the options is this:

- Turbo 2000
- Turbo 2000 with Prodrive Performance Pack (PPP) taking power up to 240bhp.
- Turbo 2000 with Prodrive Handling Pack, consiting of updated/lowered springs/shocks and optional 17" Speedlines.
- Turbo 2000 with both the above packs, called the WR Sport.

I was under the impression the RB5 was simply a Turbo 2000 WR Sport with a badge stuck on, I didn't realise it wasn't even a WR Sport.
 
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Blimey it seems some people really have managed to get handbags in a knot over this. Lets clarify my position completely and explain my opinion, then perhaps some of you can stop thinking I'm sort of moron. I'll ignore the silly snipes and ridiculous posts I've seen and just post this.

Firstly, my personal view on the Escort Cosworth IRRESPECTIVE of its value.

I love the Escort Cosworth. I think they look genuinelly special and every time I see one its as if I've just seen a Ferrari or something - Wow look! A Cosworth! They look great and even today a properly polished up mint condition example has a completely difference presence to a bog standard Mk5 Escort, which is simply a banger.

So my point is not that it is a bad car. It's not that it is simply an ordinary Escort, either, because the only amazement I get when I see an ordinary Escort is that anyone bought it in the first place.

It purely relates to the cars VALUE. Firstly, I know exactly how supply and demand works. I know that there is no question that in terms of market value, an Escort Cosworth is worth circa £15k. If you advertise a mint one for sale at this money, somebody will buy it. This is fact and cannot be disputed.

What some of us are saying though is the concept of actual value. IE is it REALLY worth that? Do you really get £15,000 worth of car?

I beleive you do not. Lets look at some of the arguments for the cars value.

1) It has Rally Heritage!

It has nowhere near the rally heritage of similar cars available at the time. As previously explained, the EsCos won not a single WRC title. I would go so far as to say it was therefore a failure on the world rally stage. It was built to dominate rally and it did not so. The Subaru Impreza and Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution were both more succesful rally cars.

2) It's a limited production run!

It's not. Ok it's not a Focus 1.6 Zetec either and 7100 is not a lot of cars but it's also not a limited production run. There was no decision taken to make only a few Escort Cosworths. They made as many as they could sell, and it really is that simple. 7100 is simply what they beleived the market would bear at the time (Though production was curtailed by stupid emissions regulations).

3) It's a Cossie!

So what? Being objective here and removing all emotion this means you get.. a 4WD 2.0 Turbocharged car. Which is great, but then so is a Subaru Impreza and so is a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution.

There is nothing about the Escort that really, truely justifies the ridicululous money they now command. it is pure 'Cosseh factor' and I think a lot of this IS based on myth. You only have to look at this thread to find out how much misinformation there is around Cosworths. There are people here who think they had loads of rally success, people who think they only made a few, people who think there was a Cosworth and an RS Cosworth when in reality they were all RS Cosworths and the difference was the second production run had smaller turbos.

There are numerous cars which are far more capable in every possible way and far far cheaper.

And this is not anti Ford. It's not if it was a BMW I'd understand. I have the same opinion of ALL over inflated scene taxed cars.

The E30 M3, seriously, 20 grand? What?
The BMW Z3M Coupe. What the hell? £13k? The E46 M3 is better and cheaper.
Mercedes 190E Cosworth Evo II. Again, stupid money.
Lotus Carlton, just lol at the money these command when its hot rival, the E34 M5, is worth a fraction (Yet annoyingly climbing with every passing day).

etc etc.

So there we go. I like Cossies but think they are a waste of money. You can't even own it like you can an Impreza. You can buy an Impreza and have it as.. your car. Go to the shops in it. Go to see friends in it. Do 12k a year in it. All whilst getting more performance, more grip, more everything than a Cosworth. Do that in a Cosworth and you'd have to be mental as you'd nuke it's over inflated value if you took it to something daft like 140k miles.

Better?
 
And the fact that 444 were made. Which makes it a limited run.

Agreed on the 22B being the only real special limited edition.

But its a limited trim run thats all, hardly a model.

Unless the Citroen Saxo West Coast is a limited production run?

Sub 8,000 Escort Cosworths is exactly that - 8,000 Escort badged cars on a Sierra platform with a unique body in white and styling features. Theres actually less made than my car!

You can't compare it to 444 different stickered classic shape Subaru imprezas. Did'nt realise they were that rare, my uncle has just sold his to make way for a 4.2 Range Rover Sport. He had tuned it to over 350bhp aswell (he says) but was a bit of a gearbox luncher.
 
Sub 8,000 Escort Cosworths is exactly that - 8,000 Escort badged cars on a Sierra platform with a unique body in white and styling features. Theres actually less made than my car!

It's not really a limited run though is it? Thats quite a lot of cars. The Focus RS was a limited run - still a lot of cars made but they stated on Day 1 exactly how many they would produce, and then produced that many.

There are for example only 4900 E39 530i Sport's. Yet I'm never, ever going to be silly enough to say thats a limited run. They didnt only decide to make 4900, they just.. only secured orders for that many so only made 4900!

To me, a limited production run is just that - a manufacturer says 'We are going to make XYZ of these' and then makes 'XYZ'. The Cosworth had no such production run limit.
 
WTF are you going on about? I am struggling to understand your post.

Read it again then? Its pretty clear.

Why you are comparing a mass produced platform and body panels (ie Body in white) with a different sticker to an actual unique platform is my main point.

A Saxo West Coast is still a Saxo (1.4 looked like a VTR but stupi seats)

A Escort Cosworth is NOT a Escort.

A Subaru Impreza RB5 is still an Impreza.

I agree with you though in regard that the 22B its comparable item. The RS badge can't be the main desire, look at the RS2000 :p
 
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