About the same as that time we didn't adopt the Euro.
Poll: EU Referendum Voting Intentions
- Thread starter kindai
- Start date
- Status
About the same as that time we didn't adopt the Euro.
Soldato
Whilst it is largely impossible to tell exactly what will happen taking a common sense approach if we leave a trade union is that import/export taxes will be introduced as this is what happens when trading with people outside your nation/union.
Taking the next logical step import tax means the price of consumer goods now go up meaning we suffer in the pocket. The next step is export tax (or the union imposing an import tax on british goods) the effect is smaller businesses may struggle to continue operating dependent on their margins if they then start losing money, meaning we suffer by losing jobs. Then you have your multinationals who, if they are now getting hit on import/export taxes they will just move their business to the EU/Eastern Europe/away from the UK to save on tax or just to protect their margins through cheaper production. Lost jobs and again we suffer.
Will this definitely happen? Hard to say but logic dictates that it would. Businesses are advising against it and of course this is to protect their own interests but ultimately any hit on their margins will be passed to us or they will leave. Ultimately the common folk suffer all because of racist hate mongering "DEY TOOK AR JOBS!!"
Caporegime
There's no reason to suggest we wouldn't be able to obtain a free trade agreement with the EU. If the iUK and EU start imposing trade tarrifs on each other then they both lose out, which would surely run contrary to the laws of common sense?
Soldato
that's not the case, it only really applies to trade regulation in the EU and is fairly limited also:
full citation is here if you want to read up on the EEA as there are marked difference between EEA membership and beinga fully signed up member of the EU
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/displayFtu.html?ftuId=FTU_6.5.3.html
We do have to take it with a pinch of salt though. The same arguments were brought to the table when we wouldn't adopt the Euro. Along with others such as foreign investment would stop, blah, blah, blah.
Was basically business as usual, if anything we benefitted from not adopting the Euro. We would have been another Ireland/ Portugal/ Greece.
But you're right it is hard to predict accurately.
What does make me cry though is the amount of ghost airports and motorways all around Europe. Funded by the EU. Hundreds of billions wasted. Ontop of that many airports that are in the red seeing through pitiful passenger numbers. Now this isn't a reason to leave the EU, it just highlights the mismanagment and ideology of the EU...
Soldato
You don't seem to understand how it works, a massive amount of the money Wales receives from the UK goes on English things. To clarify we are energy sufficient 3-4 times over yet we are still building more power generation because England depends on us to subsidise it's grid, just like it depends on us to subsidise it's reservoir capacity, farmland, roads, etc.
To give one example of how the "spending per head" figures are a joke: We get given money by the UK treasury, some of that money then gets given to wind farm operators generating power for England in order to subsidise them, the reason they are subsidised is because the UK would have to pay the same anyway in fines for failing to meet targets on CO2 emissions, 90%+ of which is emitted by England.
And yet people like you whine that were overfunded when in reality we are grossly underfunded, because you only see the money, nothing else
You neglect the fact that despite England getting the least spending per head, the money that England does get, the lions share goes to London. So guess what, everywhere else is virtually underfunded. To that effect the difference in spending per head is that much greater in some parts.
Scotland have also built lots of windmills as they have embraced the green economy and have applied for EU grants, why do they seem happy doing so and the Welsh aren't?
Last edited:
This caught my eye so I looked it up. Are you referring to the audit reported here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...6782/EU-wastes-airport-funding-worth-1bn.html
Interesting that the European Commission disagreed, saying "It is a completely unrepresentative sample of Europe’s airports". This could be true - they only looked at 20 airports. There are several hundred major airports in Europe, and several thousand including tiny ones.
Edit: Also the money's never really "wasted" - much of it will go back into the local economy for the labour and materials.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 13 May 2003
- Posts
- 8,935
I love the concept that we'd lose our voice in Europe. We have no voice now. Despite being a net contributor we are widely derided. French and German corporations have much more voice than we do which is why the TTIP is so protectionist. As to human rights and freedom most of the countries in the EU have been democracies for only 25-35years. They relate the EU to deomcracy but have barely lived in a soveriegn democracy.
We need to leave and make our representatives responsible again, our democracy is become infantile because it has been emasculated by transferring so much power to the bureaucrats of the EU.
We need to leave and make our representatives responsible again, our democracy is become infantile because it has been emasculated by transferring so much power to the bureaucrats of the EU.
Voting to leave the EU would be idiotic and pointless - it's as if to say we can somehow distance ourselves from an enormous global power on our doorstep... it's just not possible to remain untouched by the EU. We might as well reap the benefits of access to the enormous market and ability to move freely while still retaining a voice from within. You simply cannot cherrypick the parts of the EU you wish to retain without compromise.
I'm also sick of people denigrating foreigners; migrants are net contributors to the economy, and we have an ageing population that'll continue to age if we do not have more young men and women come to this country.
I'm also sick of people denigrating foreigners; migrants are net contributors to the economy, and we have an ageing population that'll continue to age if we do not have more young men and women come to this country.
Soldato
Wales does apply for EU grants, a good percentage of the Fibre Optic roll-out in Wales is being funded by the EU.
Caporegime
Let's also not forget that the EU's accounts haven't been fully signed off by auditors for some 20+ years now.
And lol - you can't claim that building an airport that no-one uses isn't a waste, I'm sorry.
It's not a waste. They're going to start flying immigrants from Libya to undercut the boat traffickers. Need airports for that.
Soldato
I'm voting out without significant reform.
Soldato
Out of curiosity, why not for green energy instead of using the money from the block grant?
You misunderstand, I am happy doing so, I have no problem helping England even when it means we end up underfunded because I like the UK, what I dislike is when people like you rant that we are being overfunded because you don't understand the money is going to subsidising you.
Soldato
Honestly i don't know. Were not even talking. Low past jobs here. I use around 100-150 class 1 drivers a night. The country just don't have enough class 1 drivers, so the pay is pretty good.
There's even an apprenticeship scheme here for shop floor staff to be paid their usual wage while training for their class 1. Then onto full driver pay when they pass.. And we still struggle.
http://rt.com/business/214503-ghost-airports-europe/ - gives you a better feel for the real wastage. It doesn't even mention Ireland.
Then there are the motorways... more of the same. Expanding vast networks into 3/4 lane highways that simply do not get used.
It may not be 'wasted' as you would like to think the contracts are picked up by local building firms etc. But the the cost of maintenance sinks in. Employment? Well it's artificial... there wasn't actually any need for these jobs.
I disagree with it not being representitive. It's got nothing to do with that. It is the simple fact that they have spent billions on numerous airports that do not get used.
All the EU is is a mechanism for Germany and France to try and increase consumer base. Try to bring the poorer countries up to a similar standard of living as the big players. Then they can sell more of their high end products. Always destined to fail.
Soldato
So why don't the Welsh get an EU grant for windmills and then pay for the installation of fibre out of the block grant? That way you pay for things that are of benefit to yourselves like the Scots do?
Stop getting your information from RT, it makes you look daft.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2014/12/funding-european-airports
"That waste accounted for about 28% of the €666m the auditors examined."
The report is here:
http://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECADocuments/SR14_21/SR14_21_EN.pdf
Yes, hundreds of millions were wasted (not billions) but a lot of that can be attributed to the financial crisis and the rest is the responsability of state or local governments.
- Status