European Grand Prix 2011, Valencia Street Circuit - Race 8/19

Pants · 25 Jun 2011 at 12:44

LOL at Lewis "taking it easy" in the nascar. Sideways.

Dr Who · 25 Jun 2011 at 12:46

Skeeter said:
This is the point I have been making for years. F1 uses cars designed to go fastest in clean air, and lines them up in speed order on the grid. On paper, there should be absolutely no overtaking in F1 at all.

And if they put the slowest car at the front? How would that impact qualifying?

:rolleyes:

It is a race, qualifying is part of that race, the actual race brings in other factors such as mistakes, not using the optimal racing line to overtake, mechanical issues.

Being able to make one fast lap does not mean you can do that 70 times in succession in a race, or that your car/driver isn't overly hard on tyres to generate that fast lap.

drunkenmaster · 25 Jun 2011 at 12:47

Kenai said:
I personally wouldn't have any objections to a reverse grid, first race based on previous years championship and then subsequent races based on the race previous to it. It would certainly sort the racers from the time triallers.

Keep 'qualifying' but instead of grid positions, do it for extra points of some style, possibly even introduce 'closest competitor' shootouts where you can get a couple of points for outpacing your nearest championship points rival or something.

Eh? Make qualifying worth, say, 20 points, and a win is worth 25 points, or mabye equal, so 1st in qualifying starts at the back, surely thats the way to do it rather than based off actual championship position because cars are better at different tracks. Based off qualifying would more often than not put the fastest cars at the back and make for the most interesting races on each track, while say a track where Ferrari blow but they have to start at the back, would be less fair and less interesting to see.

The ratio of points for qualifying and race would have to be just right to make it worthwhile to win qualifying rather than tank it , start at the front and win an easy race.

I think it would be very interesting to see, one season, or maybe a single test race if everyone agreed to it, and see how it went.

dannyjo22 said:
Understood, if we were looking at a Mansell 92 situation but so far despite all that the races really have been pretty good. The qually pace hasn't ever really been replicated in race pace and so far I think we have had some exciting races. Better than in seasons where one man hasn't got pole 6 or 7 times.

I would agree totally if the races where dull people would switch off, but so far there hasn't really been anything that hasn't been like a Bahrain gp

Theres a HUGE difference in good races due to rain ruining many peoples races, and genuinely interesting racing between cars who actually have a chance at passing each other throughout the race. Asides from Webber seemingly finding himself down the field for one reason or another and burning through against cars significantly slower, theres been very little race excitement.

In terms of 2 cars, vying for victory, closing down on the front guys, making mistakes, overtaking and having a guy come right back at you, theres been smeg all so far, without DRS it would have been pretty much a joke, and with DRS its pretty much a joke.

Kenai · 25 Jun 2011 at 12:52

drunkenmaster said:
Eh? Qualifying is worth, say, 20 points, and a win is worth 25 points, or mabye equal, so 1st in qualifying starts at the back, surely thats the way to do it rather than based off actual championship position because cars are better at different tracks. Based off qualifying would more often than not put the fastest cars at the back and make for the most interesting races.

The ratio of points for qualifying and race would have to be just right to make it worthwhile to win qualifying rather than tank it , start at the front and win an easy race.

I think it would be very interesting to see, one season, or maybe a single test race if everyone agreed to it, and see how it went.

The only trouble with that is, unless you were dishing out points all the way down the grid, the people who have the pace to be say 10th fastest, wouldn't be quick enough to get points in qually so would just tank it to start at the front.

You'd have to base reverse grid on something that they'll really have fought for, such as the previous race.

It's something that would take some very serious thought to get right and still keep a decent spectacle all weekend.

sunama · 25 Jun 2011 at 12:52

dannyjo22 said:
How often does a team run a no 1 and no 2 and then have the number 1 leave and behind have a top line driver to take the team forward?

It's rare. Of the top of my head I can only think of Hamilton (in 2007) and D.Hill (in 1994). Senna also became McLaren's No.1 in 1990.

I'm sure there have been more, but I can't remember.

dannyjo22 said:
Surely that cannot happen if Di resta was beaten by Alonso he would no longer be considered worthy to take the team forward would he?

Initially, I fully expect Di Resta to get beat by Alonso. This won't be a big deal, however, as time progresses and Alonso loses his skills, I expect the gap to close. If Di Resta does really well, he may even be able to finish ahead of Alonso in some races.

At the end of the day, it will be up to Di Resta to stamp his skill on Ferrari and make Ferrari take notice. Just as Hamilton's uber skillz forced Alonso out. Just as Senna's uber skillz forced Prost out. De Resta can also do this to Alonso.

dannyjo22 said:
They promised Irvine, Rubens and Massa there time would come as a no 1. It never did.

This is because these drivers weren't good enough. They had their chance. Massa had his chance to beat Kimi and just as he was doing so, he crashed and was taken out of the game for many months.

Barrichello was never really championship material.

Irvine was decent but not of the same callibre of MSc. He was the ultimate playboy. In 1979, Hunt was a playboy and won the title. In modern F1, there is no way that a playboy can win the title. You have to be a complete driver to win the title these days.

dannyjo22 said:
I'd like him to go to Mercedes or somewhere he would get equalish billing to then take him to the next level. No2 whipping boy to Alonso isn't somewhere anyone hoping to progress should go.

At Ferrari, he will definitely get a race winning car. At Mercedes, he will have to make the team great, before the wins can come. Based on the first 7 races, the guy deserves a race winning car. Mercedes, at present, don't like they can provide a race winning car, though this may change in a few years.

Dr Who · 25 Jun 2011 at 12:53

Ugh Motogp is right in the middle of Qualifying.

Kenai · 25 Jun 2011 at 12:56

sunama said:
Just as Hamilton's uber skillz forced Alonso out.

McLaren had been grooming Hamilton to be their number one driver since he was a kid though, that was a bit of a different scenario, he was always destined to get that #1 seat, whether it came about by beating Alonso or Alonso leaving or being forced out, it was going to happen one way or another.

knip · 25 Jun 2011 at 13:00

Hello people, just got in from taking the dog out, have I missed anything? Is Perez back?

Edit - just as he appears on the screen!

utajoker · 25 Jun 2011 at 13:00

Kenai said:
McLaren had been grooming Hamilton to be their number one driver since he was a kid though, that was a bit of a different scenario, he was always destined to get that #1 seat, whether it came about by beating Alonso or Alonso leaving or being forced out, it was going to happen one way or another.

you still have to be fast or they would see it would be a stupid decision. he still had to step up and beat someone as good as alonso.

diresta does look promising, and hes british so its even better

Kenai · 25 Jun 2011 at 13:03

utajoker said:
you still have to be fast or they would see it would be a stupid decision.

Yes no doubt, but it's not as simple as him coming along and destroying Alonso on raw results - he was McLarens golden boy, an entirely different situation to if DiResta joined Ferrari.

For a start, DiResta would almost certainly be made to obey the sort of team orders that McLaren wouldn't have even considered issuing to Lewis when he was technically a #2.

Danthus · 25 Jun 2011 at 13:03

That Renualt engine sounds horrific!

pingwing · 25 Jun 2011 at 13:03

Cool features at the start there

Kenai · 25 Jun 2011 at 13:04

OldCoals said:
That Renualt engine sounds horrific!

The Mercedes was sounding a bit odd when it pulled out the pits too - just a low rev oddity or have they got a new exhaust layout?

Dr Who · 25 Jun 2011 at 13:06

Kenai said:
McLaren had been grooming Hamilton to be their number one driver since he was a kid though, that was a bit of a different scenario, he was always destined to get that #1 seat, whether it came about by beating Alonso or Alonso leaving or being forced out, it was going to happen one way or another.

I wouldn't say they have been grooming him for a #1 seat, they brought him through the ranks as a potential driver, had he not shown the speed he wouldn't have got the seat.

utajoker · 25 Jun 2011 at 13:07

Kenai said:
Yes no doubt, but it's not as simple as him coming along and destroying Alonso on raw results - he was McLarens golden boy, an entirely different situation to if DiResta joined Ferrari.

For a start, DiResta would almost certainly be made to obey the sort of team orders that McLaren wouldn't have even considered issuing to Lewis when he was technically a #2.

i think if they did get him, for his first season they would say ok lets see what you can do.

they wouldnt expect him to match alonso so can say to him go for it and lets see how good you are.

englishpremier · 25 Jun 2011 at 13:09

Why is Ron Dennis at every GP recently?

Kenai · 25 Jun 2011 at 13:10

utajoker said:
i think if they did get him, for his first season they would say ok lets see what you can do.

they wouldnt expect him to match alonso so can say to him go for it and lets see how good you are.

You could bet your bottom dollar though, if Alonso was doing well in the championship, needed the points and DiResta was in front, they'd make him get out the way, something McLaren would never have done to Hamilton.

My point is, it's not a comparable situation, Hamilton was someone McLaren had invested in for years and had plans for, Di Resta would just be any other quick driver to Ferrari.

Emlyn_Dewar · 25 Jun 2011 at 13:16

That looked like a bit of a traffic nightmare for Alguersuari there...

Edit: Massa going out on softs? What is it with Ferrari lately? They just seem to love wasting tyres.

utajoker · 25 Jun 2011 at 13:17

massa going for softs, strange choice.

Emlyn_Dewar · 25 Jun 2011 at 13:19

This will end in tears for some... So many cars on track!