EV general discussion

[Kill_Phil]

Currently sat in Honda Wolverhampton waiting for my car to charge before I can leave, and hopefully never return because this place is an absolute dump, on top of being called a **** by some random white van man whilst walking along the side of the road from the station to the garage

Guessing you nabbed one of the eny1 deals that the branch was doing. Gutted I missed out on it as was a right bargain

 

[Haggisman]

Other than they are objectively better in every single way than a halogen lamp other than cost to replace.

Halogens cannot in any way be described as good compared to any HID, LED or Laser lighting technology. Thinking otherwise is pure cope.

Are they really ~£2k a side better though?

 

[Journey]

Some interesting prices on the Citroën e-C4 X Saloon at the moment, ~£250pm for either 2 year or 4 year PCH deals, and low cost per mile 5.5p on excess. Not something I would buy, but they are in stock and obviously want to move them. Looking at AT, a new pre-reg is about £20.5k cash, and Citroën's own 0% PCP offer is 50% more expensive over the period.

 

[Mr Jack]

Are they really ~£2k a side better though?

LEDs may be better in some abstract sense, but Halogens are already plenty good enough. There's no real benefit to brighter lights, and a higher cost in terms of blinding other road users.

 

[Mr Jack]

Hi folks, about to become an EV owner and looking for some advice on home chargers.

My advice - and I have yet to get my own EV, it's coming in June - is to see how you get on with a boring old wall plug and decide whether you actually need to get a specialist charging box fitted.

A 13A/240V supply will charge an e-Golf completely overnight; do you actually need to be able to charge faster than that?

Obviously, if you don't already have a suitable external power supply in a good place for where you park your car, ignore me

 

[bigmike20vt]

I am no electrician so only going on what I have been told. but I have been warned.against relying solely on 3pin plugs to charge a car.
regular 10hr+ charging on a 3pin can be a fire hazard of there is any issue with your home electrics. you are reccomend to get a purpose installed plug. at which point that money could go towards a basic faster charge point.

 

[Haggisman]

A 13A/240V supply will charge an e-Golf completely overnight; do you actually need to be able to charge faster than that?

That's an absolute max of 3.1kwh overnight 8 hours... That's only 25kw, or 90 miles @ 3.6mi/kW

That might be enough for some people, if you don't mind charging almost every single night, but also means you won't really be able to take advantage of any time of use tariffs.

Is the e-Golf really that poorly specced it has the same size battery as a Zoe or Leaf from 2013?

LEDs may be better in some abstract sense, but Halogens are already plenty good enough. There's no real benefit to brighter lights, and a higher cost in terms of blinding other road users.

I'm not arguing they're not better, but honestly struggling to see how the cost justification works for an extra £4k to replace the pair

 

[lordrobs]

I'm not arguing they're not better, but honestly struggling to see how the cost justification works for an extra £4k to replace the pair

On the one hand I agree having £2k a pop lights on the front of any car is ridiculous. On the other hand in 24 years of driving I've never had to replace a headlight unit.

 

[Mr Jack]

That's an absolute max of 3.1kwh overnight 8 hours... That's only 25kw, or 90 miles @ 3.6mi/kW

Overnight is usually more than 8 hours, people get home from work about 6 or 7pm and leave about 8 or 9, at least 12 hours seems more reasonable. It takes 9h 20 to charge an eGolf from 20-80% according to these guys (who are trying to sell wall chargers); so "charge completely" might be a slight exaggeration on my part but even a 0-100% charge will be done within 16hrs. I think, for most people, normal use on a wall socket will be completely fine and it just needs a bit of extra planning for longer journeys.

 

[Journey]

I think, for most people, normal use on a wall socket will be completely fine and it just needs a bit of extra planning for longer journeys.

You have to KNOW you have good electrics/sockets that are suitable for 10A continuous though, and I can tell you now that a heck of a lot of people don't, and would have no clue how to check either. 2.3kW continuous with poor quality wiring will get very warm, and that is how fires start. If I am using unknown electrics on my 3-pin I turn it down to 6A on the EVSE.

 

[Sin_Chase]

LEDs may be better in some abstract sense, but Halogens are already plenty good enough. There's no real benefit to brighter lights, and a higher cost in terms of blinding other road users.

Uhm, have you ever driven a car with modern non halogen lights on?

Personally, the benefit cannot be understated. From a safety point of view the consistent, cleaner and brighter light makes feel like driving with halogens hazardous.

Halogens put light on the road, yes. But there is a reason the technology evolved and its not because there is "no real benefit".

I personally think the "blinding other road users" argument is overplayed. Its just not the issue some people make it out to be.

 

[m4rmite]

3 pin plug chargers are 10amp not 13amp, that I've seen anyway.

 

[Mr Jack]

Uhm, have you ever driven a car with modern non halogen lights on?

Personally, the benefit cannot be understated. From a safety point of view the consistent, cleaner and brighter light makes feel like driving with halogens hazardous.

Yes, my last car had them; my current has halogens. The only thing I miss is that the LEDs would automatically adjust to driving on the other side of the road when I took it on the ferry to the UK. Halogens are enough better than the candles in my first car to be worth it, but everything after that? Nope. No real benefit. Sure, they're brighter but I can already see everything I need with halogens.

I personally think the "blinding other road users" argument is overplayed. Its just not the issue some people make it out to be.

It can be exaggerated, sure, but it is a problem and one that's getting worse. There is a trade off here, or we'd all merrily zoom around with our full beams on.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Are they really ~£2k a side better though?

Only if you break them is that a concern

Actually £2k a side assumes OEM halogens are free? Which they aren’t.

 

[panthro]

Guessing you nabbed one of the eny1 deals that the branch was doing. Gutted I missed out on it as was a right bargain

I did, it's a great car for the money. My only criticism is the safety systems are far too intrusive.

 

[Sin_Chase]

Yes, my last car had them; my current has halogens. The only thing I miss is that the LEDs would automatically adjust to driving on the other side of the road when I took it on the ferry to the UK. Halogens are enough better than the candles in my first car to be worth it, but everything after that? Nope. No real benefit. Sure, they're brighter but I can already see everything I need with halogens.



It can be exaggerated, sure, but it is a problem and one that's getting worse. There is a trade off here, or we'd all merrily zoom around with our full beams on.

Main beams and dipped have different beam patterns. So no, there isnt a link between brightness and dazzling in this sense. I suspect you very much know this though.

I'll never own a car with halogens in again, more fool me for spending the money for no benefit I guess.

 

[Mr Jack]

Main beams and dipped have different beam patterns. So no, there isnt a link between brightness and dazzling in this sense. I suspect you very much know this though.

Of course there are differences between full and dipped, that wasn't my point. My point is that dazzling other road users matters and whether or not you think LEDs are over the line where the pay off from better visibility or not, you surely agree that there is a point where the cost of brighter headlines in dazzling other road users outweighs any benefit to the driver. In my view, LEDs are already brighter than they need to be because, in my experience, they give no meaningful level of improved visibility over halogens. I'd be interested to see whether there's any research showing that brighter LED lights are actually of a safety benefit?

I'll never own a car with halogens in again, more fool me for spending the money for no benefit I guess.

You preference is, of course, your own and - also - there are substantial differences in night vision between individuals. Personally if the car comes with them I'll have them - saves me putting those stickers on the headlights when I cross the channel - but I don't consider them something that will sell me a car or not. My next car has those fancy matrix thingies, I'll see what I think of those soon enough

 

[Jonnycoupe]

imagine not knowing about matrix lights and brightness segmentation…

It’s an utter game changer driving through dark country lanes at night.

 

[paradigm]

imagine not knowing about matrix lights and brightness segmentation…

It’s an utter game changer driving through dark country lanes at night.

It is, and I’m very glad Tesla have finally gotten around to enabling it on the Model 3.

I’ve been missing it since I got rid of my S3!

 

[Haggisman]

Only if you break them is that a concern

Actually £2k a side assumes OEM halogens are free? Which they aren’t.

No, it assumes OEM halogens are £500 a side. £2500 for a matrix unit (taken from figures above) -£2000 = £500, not £0

And yes, of course it is only "if you break them", but:

A) they are far more complex than a bulb/lens/reflector/cover so more to go wrong
B) they are on the front corners of your car, if you have a bump they are in a very vulnerable position (yes, the insurance will pay for it, but then that's the difference between making a ££££ (how much is a 2nd hand unit?) claim vs £100 from a scrappy), along with pushing all our premiums up.