EV general discussion

Refer to above Model 3 performance / BMW M3 weight.

Or compare a Model 3 RWD vs a 320i for a more day to day option.

Or a X3 vs a Model Y or EV6

Ground up EVs weigh the same as ground up ICE. Plus the benefit of weight being lower down, and packaging giving more cabin and luggage space.

Using the XC90 example above - Model Y has more cabin and luggage space whilst being 400kg lighter.

Model 3 RWD battery is 324kg and motor etc adds 90 so say 415kg.
Engine, gearbox, differential, exhaust, oil, fuel tank and 50l fuel are at least that.

(Excuse the Tesla examples! Just useful as an example of a purpose built EV rather than being based on an ICE design)
 
Last edited:
Tesla are also loud with cheap seats and not much soundproofing, Not to be compared, unlike like a Golf vs a ID3

Ignore the cars. You said powertrains are same or lighter on EV…
 
Last edited:
blun said:
Refer to above Model 3 performance / BMW M3 weight.

Or compare a Model 3 RWD vs a 320i for a more day to day option.

Or a X3 vs a Model Y or EV6

Ground up EVs weigh the same as ground up ICE. Plus the benefit of weight being lower down, and packaging giving more cabin and luggage space.

Using the XC90 example above - Model Y has more cabin and luggage space whilst being 400kg lighter.

Model 3 RWD battery is 324kg and motor etc adds 90 so say 415kg.
Engine, gearbox, differential, exhaust, oil, fuel tank and 50l fuel are at least that.

(Excuse the Tesla examples! Just useful as an example of a purpose built EV rather than being based on an ICE design)
Click to expand...
XC90 2025-2200kg. 4.953m long
Tesla Y 4wd 1995kg. 4.75m long

Hardly comparable cars in segment. Model X is the XC90. More car more metal
 
Last edited:
Simon said:
XC90 2025-2200kg. 4.953m long
Tesla Y 4wd 1995kg. 4.75m long

Hardly comparable cars in segment. Model X is the XC90. More car more metal
Click to expand...
It’s longer because it has a massive engine bay rather than a frunk.

Luggage capacity:

XC90 - 1951 litres
Model Y - 2041 litres

Literally sat them both next to each other last week!
 
Simon said:
Tesla are also loud with cheap seats and not much soundproofing, Not to be compared, unlike like a Golf vs a ID3

Ignore the cars. You said powertrains are same or lighter on EV…
Click to expand...
Current Model 3 is as quiet as its competition (quieter if you consider engine noise, though road noise takes over as the main thing you hear by about 30mph). Has double glazing etc.

Agree VW cheaped-out a bit on the ID3 but that was for cost reasons.

Rather than powertrains I should have been clearer in saying all the parts needed on an EV vs those needed on a combustion car.
 
Last edited:
blun said:
It’s longer because it has a massive engine bay rather than a frunk.

Luggage capacity:

XC90 - 1951 litres
Model Y - 2041 litres

Literally sat them both next to each other last week!
Click to expand...
But we are talking about weight. Why are we now on about luggage space. Luggage space is air. Length of car is metal.

Anyway EVs are heavier as the batteries are massive parts of the car and weight twice the weight of an engine and gearbox. Now sure how you can say a battery and motor is the same or lighter than an ICE
 
blun said:
Current Model 3 is as quiet as its competition (quieter if you consider engine noise, though road noise takes over as the main thing you hear by about 30mph). Has double glazing etc.

Agree VW cheaped-out a bit on the ID3 but that was for cost reasons.

Rather than powertrains I should have been clearer in saying all the parts needed on an EV vs those needed on a combustion car.
Click to expand...
And the ID3 is still much heavier than a Golf …
 
Mentioned luggage space as you suggested that a longer car is a more spacious car which isn’t the case here.

Not sure what else to say to you - if you want to say EVs are heavy then go for it but the facts remain:

- modern cars are quite heavy
- purpose built EVs weigh the same as combustion equivalents
- EV packaging takes up less space meaning a smaller car can offer the same passenger and luggage space

We do see some heavy EVs where a combustion chassis has been adapted for EV but as manufacturers all move to dedicated EV platforms, this is a temporary situation.

We’ve gone from early EVs being heavier than combustion, to now weight-parity, and as EVs continue getting lighter the balance now shifts to combustion being heavier.
 
Last edited:
A little deluded to assume that. It’s not a story time where rate of change goes into the future. There is certainly no weight parity now

I’ve given two examples of the effectively the same car being heavier in EV guise and you start comparing Tesla’s which are EV only to a Volvo tank that’s 0.25m longer but then started going on about luggage space. I never said longer so more space. I said it’s a longer car so needs more metal and glas, you know, to make it longer.

Again how is a 570kg battery and 180kg of motors less weight than 280kg of ICE powertrain ?

EV batteries aren’t easier to package. Sure you make get more space in the length but a saloon EV is massive compromised due to the huge floor. I’m so confused why people seem to ignore the fact a battery takes up space that isn’t even needed in an ICE. But apparently a ground up EV has a battery half the weight and is only 1mm high? Don’t forget EVs typically have twice the coolant of a ICE too
 
Last edited:
I can’t keep saying the same thing over and over.

You can find examples of heavy EVs and I can find examples of heavy combustion cars.

The parts of a combustion car which are not needed in an EV weigh the same as the battery and motor in the EV. Simple. Fact.

A combustion design/chassis converted to EV weighs a bit more as it’s not purpose built but that works for some manufacturers right now.
 
The thing is you are comparing apple and oranges to suit your narrative

and you are getting too granular. Why is a ground up MEB ID3 250-300kg more than a golf ?

Teslas are still todays mondeos and 1.8 ton isn’t light compared to what used to be bought in that segment.
 
Last edited:
blun said:
I can’t keep saying the same thing over and over.

You can find examples of heavy EVs and I can find examples of heavy combustion cars.

The parts of a combustion car which are not needed in an EV weigh the same as the battery and motor in the EV. Simple. Fact.
Click to expand...
Opinion.
 
blun said:
I can’t keep saying the same thing over and over.

You can find examples of heavy EVs and I can find examples of heavy combustion cars.

The parts of a combustion car which are not needed in an EV weigh the same as the battery and motor in the EV. Simple. Fact.

A combustion design/chassis converted to EV weighs a bit more as it’s not purpose built but that works for some manufacturers right now.
Click to expand...
You have not got a clue what you are talking about, let’s stop pretending you do :) Fact.

The attributes of a Tesla are nothing like a XC90 for a start, or the wheel size, or tyre size to manage sidewall loads etc.
 
Last edited:
blun said:
I can’t keep saying the same thing over and over.

You can find examples of heavy EVs and I can find examples of heavy combustion cars.

The parts of a combustion car which are not needed in an EV weigh the same as the battery and motor in the EV. Simple. Fact.

A combustion design/chassis converted to EV weighs a bit more as it’s not purpose built but that works for some manufacturers right now.
Click to expand...

Not true at all. A ground up EV will still be heavier than an equivalent ICE. I showed repeatedly earlier that it was about 250 - 300kg heavier for an EV given the same chassis. A ground up EV chassis will not make up that difference. A BMW 3 series is about 1600kg, a VW Passat or Skoda Superb is about 1500kg and a Model 3 standard range is about 1830kg. You need to go up to 5 and 6 series to match that 3 series weight. Yet by that time the Model 3 cannot remotely match the luxury and soundproofing of either.

No matter how you swing it a ground up EV is currently heavier than an equivalent sized ICE. Even a moderately sized battery EV is not going to be lighter. The Model 3 is not remotely a “light EV”.

Let me put it another way. Take the battery and electric motors out of a Tesla Model 3 and replace with a combustion drive train, it will be lighter.

My argument was always that 200kg - 300kg heavier does not instantly render a car “not fun”. But never that a ground up designed EV is lighter than an equivalent ICE. Not currently anyway.
 
Last edited:
It is really odd that people want EVs to be heavier than equivalent ICE cars even though there are plenty of real world examples demonstrating that they needn’t be.

I know the 1000kg hot hatches of the 90s were fun - I had several - but those days are largely gone now regardless of EV/ICE power.
 
As I said can’t keep posting the same thing but

Model 3 RWD- 1760kg
3 series (330d RWD)- 1770kg
C-class 2.0d RWD - 1730kg

Kia EV6 - 1985kg
Model Y - 1909kg
BMW X3 - 1890kg
Volvo XC60 - 1835kg
 
Last edited:
blun said:
It is really odd that people want EVs to be heavier than equivalent ICE cars even though there are plenty of real world examples demonstrating that they needn’t be.
Click to expand...

Where do you get this stuff? Nobody “wants” EVs to be heavier, we are just pointing out the facts that they ARE heavier. What some of us are arguing is that EVs being 200 - 300kg heavier (like for like) does not mean they can’t be fun and are overweight.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom