EV general discussion

sandys said:
But the leaf won't be paying fuel duty or the vat on that fuel, so an ICE car is paying much more tax on the whole, so they won't be missing out on shoveling money to the Gov.
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that all depends on where they charge........ home users may still be able to be ok ..... but those relying on public charging where costs can be more than diesel per mile driven......................... these people could have bought the EV at a significant premium over the ICE counter part due to cheap public charging and no car tax............. since then, public charging has rocketed and soon they will be paying car tax.

imo it should not be regressive........ given EVs are now give or take price parity with ICE cars then sure, tax them going forward but those who took a punt and shelled out a lot of cash (not all are on sweet lease schemes) i think its harsh those having to stump up more tax than say our pug diesel (which we would still have had someone not wrote it off last year).. imo they should treat EV car tax the same way they are treating luxury car tax on EVs

our "eco" diesel never got screwed tax wise when the rules were changed... it was only going forward, so why go backwards on EVs now?
 
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The whole "EV's are heavy" thing needs to stop -- modern cars are heavier than old cars regardless of powertrain.

A Tesla Model 3 Performance is lighter than a BMW M3 / Audi RS4 / Mercedes C63AMG.

A Kia EV6 is lighter than a BMW X3

A battery and motor weighs the same or less than an engine, gearbox etc..

Had this very conversation recently where a colleague with a Volvo XC90 was saying how heavy a Model Y is in comparison, and was quite surprised when he found his diesel XC90 is 400kg heavier!
 
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Simon said:
Batteries and motors are not lighter than engines and gearboxes.

Compare a i4 to a M4. Same chassis
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Can't compare an ICE car chassis with EV bits shoehorned in, with a purpose built EV.

ICE car chassis - BMW M3 xDrive - 1,850kg
Ground-up EV: Model 3 Performance - 1,851kg

When BMW make a ground-up electric M3 it will be the same weight as the ICE version.
 
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SexyGreyFox said:
I have no idea what screw modded is or what a 306 TD is
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I don't know either but assume it is a compliment - I remember being driven enthusiastically in a mates 306 1.6 petrol up mountain passes,
apocalypse now cd ...... the car had excellent road handling and agility.
e2: did you tell us what colour your mg4 is

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e: solid state batteries can still bring it back for ev's weight (repeating discussion from only a couple of weeks back)
 
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jpaul said:
e: solid state batteries can still bring it back for ev's weight (repeating discussion from only a couple of weeks back)
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Solid state is an evolution not a revolution but should drop weight by 10% or so - maybe 20% in several years time - we'll then have EVs that are lighter than their combustion equivalent rather than the same as. Hopefully that will fully put to bed the "heavy EV's" point!
 
blun said:
Can't compare an ICE car chassis with EV bits shoehorned in, with a purpose built EV.

ICE car chassis - BMW M3 xDrive - 1,850kg
Ground-up EV: Model 3 Performance - 1,851kg

When BMW make a ground-up electric M3 it will be the same weight as the ICE version
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The lightest batteries are 300-400kg. My born is 1850kg as a group up EV
 
blun said:
Can't compare an ICE car chassis with EV bits shoehorned in, with a purpose built EV.

ICE car chassis - BMW M3 xDrive - 1,850kg
Ground-up EV: Model 3 Performance - 1,851kg

When BMW make a ground-up electric M3 it will be the same weight as the ICE version.
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The nativity of this statement is borderline comical.
 
blun said:
Solid state is an evolution not a revolution but should drop weight by 10% or so - maybe 20% in several years time - we'll then have EVs that are lighter than their combustion equivalent rather than the same as. Hopefully that will fully put to bed the "heavy EV's" point!
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They will just add range. Batteries can be smaller now. But they aren’t as people obsessed with range.
 
jpaul said:
I don't know either but assume it is a compliment - I remember being driven enthusiastically in a mates 306 1.6 petrol up mountain passes,
apocalypse now cd ...... the car had excellent road handling and agility.
e2: did you tell us what colour your mg4 is

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e: solid state batteries can still bring it back for ev's weight (repeating discussion from only a couple of weeks back)
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You keep talking about weight and spelling it wrong; we are all waiting for you to actually drive something other than Google search engine. I kind of feel sorry for you being so enthusiastic about something you have zero experience of.
 
jpaul said:
I don't know either but assume it is a compliment - I remember being driven enthusiastically in a mates 306 1.6 petrol up mountain passes,
apocalypse now cd ...... the car had excellent road handling and agility.
e2: did you tell us what colour your mg4 is

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e: solid state batteries can still bring it back for ev's weight (repeating discussion from only a couple of weeks back)
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It was about the 306 TD drivers who modified the boost with a screw and then thought they were the fastest car on the road. If a MG4 genuinely is blowing you away then avoid a Taycan.

Although it’s good to justify the purchase via performance as I think for 50 miles a week I’d struggle with the maths of it when you include the cost of a charger install.
 
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Just media fed. The reality is most cars moving to steel bodies rather than aluminium for their carbon impact has a much higher effect than the compromises of a flex nature. The batteries on CLAR would be there regardless and the Bodyshop means BMW aren’t using the same bodies.

Edit: onus of understanding is on you, you know cos you don’t design cars for a living…
 
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Simon said:
It was about the 306 TD drivers who modified the boost with a screw and then thought they were the fastest car on the road. If a MG4 genuinely is blowing you away then avoid a Taycan.

Although it’s good to justify the purchase via performance as I think for 50 miles a week I’d struggle with the maths of it when you include the cost of a charger install.
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They worry about the cost of a charger, they are talking to Uber CEO
 
Simon said:
They will just add range. Batteries can be smaller now. But they aren’t as people obsessed with range.
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Agree they will have silly amounts of range, then as people realise they don’t need it and can save loads of money with a smaller battery, standard range versions will make up the majority of sales with long range versions for the small number of people that really meet 500+ miles.
 
M4
S58 weight : 200kg ish
8HP ZF : 87kg

i4 M50 battery: 572kg
i4 motors probably 180kg (VW MEB are smaller and 90kg each)

The i4 is 2.29 tons, the same car is 1.75 tons as an M4 X drive (4wd)

How you think 572kg of battery is less than a engine and gearbox is beyond me or why you think the next one is going to be 0.5 ton lighter

EVs are heavy!
 
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