EV general discussion

Nasher said:
Except you can store 1000s of miles of petrol in a few large cans for months or years. To store that much energy in batteries would cost millions and need a building the size of a house. Also petrol engines can be modified to run on alternative fuels.
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Accept that fuel could be used to run a generator to power up the EV so you are at an advantage over the ICE car. Not only can you us that fuel you can use solor, wind and all the other sources to fuel the EV. What are you going to do with your ICE car when that 1000's of miles of fuel runs out and the patrol stations have closed due to lack of customers with people using EV's in the future?

Plus how many people store spare fuel for 1000's of miles at home? Almost zero. How many people have home electric generation? Millions.
 
Nasher said:
Sure, but it's one of those rules which no one followed. A bit like the speed limit on motorways.
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Like any rule, its not a rule btw its a law, its actually one they do take quite seriously due to the consequences, the penalty for not doing so can be harsh.
Some people have been killed by ignoring it in the past. Idiots going to idiot I guess.

Also, if there was an issue with supply chances are you aren't going to have it for long, as soon as its known you have it someone will come and take it, by force if necessary.

Oh wait no, I bet you would be out there with your keyboard beating off 5+ blokes in balaclavas who want your fuel right? ;)
 
Pottsey said:
Accept that fuel could be used to run a generator to power up the EV so you are at an advantage over the ICE car. Not only can you us that fuel you can use solor, wind and all the other sources to fuel the EV. What are you going to do with your ICE car when that 1000's of miles of fuel runs out and the patrol stations have closed due to lack of customers with people using EV's in the future?

Plus how many people store spare fuel for 1000's of miles at home? Almost zero. How many people have home electric generation? Millions.
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A very inefficient way of using it though.

You can modify petrol engines to use different fuels (like ethanol), especially older ones which are less fussy.
 
Joe T said:
The least efficient way to use petrol is probably to burn it in an ICE car.
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ICE car generates it's own power, an EV does not. Which is why it has the illusion of being cleaner and more efficient. It is for the end user, not when you look at the big picture.
 
Nasher said:
ICE car generates it's own power, an EV does not. Which is why it has the illusion of being cleaner and more efficient. It is for the end user, not when you look at the big picture.
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That's a sweeping statement if ever I saw one. Oil production can be catastrophic for the environment. Renewables are significantly less environmentally damaging than an oil spill or even the production of diesel or petrol from crude oil. Yes, a lot of electricity is generated from coal. but this is being phased out.

Right now in the UK Coal only accounts for 2% of electricity being supplied to the grid.
 
bloodiedathame said:
Sweeping statement. Oil production can be catastrophic for the environment. Renewables are significantly less environmentally damaging than an oil spill or even the production of diesel or petrol from crude oil. Yes, a lot of electricity is generated from coal. but this is being phased out.
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I think he was saying that lots of small ICE units are more efficient as a whole than large power stations. In other words, there are no efficiencies gained from scale.
 
Nasher said:
Except you can store 1000s of miles of petrol in a few large cans for months or years. To store that much energy in batteries would cost millions and need a building the size of a house. Also petrol engines can be modified to run on alternative fuels.
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shame you can’t get fuel from the sky, oh wait I could wity an EV and if I was actually worried about power demands is fit a nice simple 4kW array.

Not sure where I would be going with a grid brownout anyway. Probably happy my EV for that short period was powering my fridge freezer overnight though.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
shame you can’t get fuel from the sky, oh wait I could wity an EV and if I was actually worried about power demands is fit a nice simple 4kW array.

Not sure where I would be going with a grid brownout anyway. Probably happy my EV for that short period was powering my fridge freezer overnight though.
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Nasher Mode :
Until someone comes and steals your car so they can power their fridge freezer :P
 
Nasher said:
ICE car generates it's own power, an EV does not. Which is why it has the illusion of being cleaner and more efficient. It is for the end user, not when you look at the big picture.
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The pumps that shoves raw crude oil down the pipe from rig to mainland used more electricity than the car will talking you to the shops... and that’s the cleaner version of oil transport. The other is oil tankers running on basically road tar...
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Not sure where I would be going with a grid brownout anyway. Probably happy my EV for that short period was powering my fridge freezer overnight though.
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This sort of thing can be incredibly useful from EV's. Bi-directional power to and from the house when required.

Mind, a lot of rubbishing of good points in here as far as I can see. A lot of nonsense also though... Personally, I still can only see BEV's as a temporary measure until we can run a hydrogen infrastructure. Hydrogen storage has come a long way in the last decade and has hugely reduced the energy-intensive processes that it once needed. Me researching this has been a side effect of isolation and needing to define some scientific nonsense. :p
For example, a tank of hydrogen dispersed on a MOF is also likely to be a lot safer than a tank of petrol.

One for you @Jonnycoupe, I saw JLR mention about the use of fuel cells for their larger vehicles. Is this something they're going ahead with?
 
Nasher said:
A very inefficient way of using it though.

You can modify petrol engines to use different fuels (like ethanol), especially older ones which are less fussy.
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Its hardly that less efficient and your still missing the point. This is a look at the future where you wont be able to get fuel for your ICE car due to patrol stations closing down. There are also more and easier ways to fuel up EV's then there are to fuel up ICE car's.

How many days in my life have I had problems fueling up an EV? Zero
How many days in my life have seen problems getting fuel for ICE cars, lots including right now.


"ICE car generates it's own power, an EV does not. Which is why it has the illusion of being cleaner and more efficient. It is for the end user, not when you look at the big picture."
Its not an illusion EV's are cleaner and more efficient. Sooner or later you will have to face the facts ICE cars are on the way out and at some point in the future you wont be able to buy fuel for them and run them like you can today.
 
Yer, I don't know why people seem to want to convert him. It's never gonna happen. Thankfully, there's still plenty of them around to subsidise road tax.
 
Well I see this thread has descended in to the usual bizarre hypotheticals...

If the electricity went out "for several days", cars would be a trivial concern. Most of the population would effectively be trapped within their urban environment, deprived of modern means of communication, and fighting each other over tins of beans in a torchlit Sainsbury's. Fortunately, it's a highly unlikely eventuality.

Which type of car would survive better really is a silly argument to be having. Both are going to be stuck in a days-long traffic jam trying to get out of the city.
 
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