EV general discussion

Russinating said:
I think it's really interesting re: Tesla's brand that they're widely seen as being expensive, even amongst people who know about cars, but particularly those who're maybe not fussed.

My Model 3 SR+ had a purchase price of £39,490‬.

I think it's just interesting, is all!
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Where did you get the £39,490‬?

I don't think a Tesla is expensive long term compared to ICE cars. Personally I think anyone spending this kind of money on anything other than electric is a bit insane. But, you do need to have that kind of money up front - or if not, be able to afford the monthly repayment for that amount.

Spending £800-900 a month on a loan repayment isn't a great way to 'save money'. I own my Leaf outright, and 'mostly' charge via solar - so the only actual cost now is the the yearly insurance. :cool:
 
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Russinating said:
I think it's really interesting re: Tesla's brand that they're widely seen as being expensive, even amongst people who know about cars, but particularly those who're maybe not fussed.

My Model 3 SR+ had a purchase price of £39,490‬.
I'll save £7,503 in corporation tax (vs £1,350 or £450 for 50g/km+ cars of the same price) to be partially deducted if/when it's sold
I'll pay no benefit in kind for the first year, and minimal for the next three (vs something like £2,000+ per year for a similar priced car, £1,500 for less)
To date I've spent something like £2.70-3.00 on 'fuel' to do 600 miles for 0.5ppm (vs ~£90-100 for a 35mpg diesel @ 15ppm)

Assuming a low 6,000 miles per year total cost would be £90 (I've tripled the EV cost to account for some more expensive public charger use) and £900 respectively.

So 39,490 - 6,000 - 1,500 - 810 (all the first year cost differences, worst case scenarios) is £31,180. If I went out and bought a new car for that - and there aren't many under that really unless you're looking at cheap brands and base models - then nobody would bat an eyelid. Half the cars on my street are worth the same as that, they just happen to be older BMWs, Volvos, Minis or top model basic cars etc that are more common.

I think it's just interesting, is all!
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While it is good that the government has made it a lot cheaper for companies to have electric cars for the majority of us who like me have to fund cars themselves it is still expensive.

All they've done for me is reduce the grant by £500 making the car more expensive and on the other hand made it so i don't have to pay luxury car tax on top so it does balance out in my favour but not by much.

I'm realistically looking at a Hyundai Ioniq as my next car unless i somehow come into enough money for a model 3 and even then there's a roughly 5-7k uplift if i want to go electric rather than the ICE version.

While i know i will save on road tax, currently about £180 i think and in fuel which may save me another £1000 ish per year it's still a long time before it becomes financially worth while. For me i'm a big fan of electric cars and will do it anyway but for the average joe there isn't much incentive at this time.
 
Bug One said:
I don't think I've ever seen a free rapid. Happy to be proven wrong.

Actually, there was one at my local Lidl. For about 6 months, now it's pay to use.
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They're certainly becoming rare. Ecotricity was free until mid-2016. Then their rapids at IKEA were free for a bit after that. Then there were the PodPoint units at Lidl, as you say. Engenie were free for years too. Not sure why; payment was always "coming soon".

Engie are still free (Leeds/York area), as are some CYC rapid chargers in the North. And ChargePlace Scotland is free. Other than that, it's pretty much all dealerships.

Personally, I wouldn't own an EV if it meant relying on rapid chargers. It would get expensive, fast. A Leaf, charged exclusively on rapid chargers, must be in the 10p to 12p per mile fuel cost range, surely? That's about the same as an efficient ICE.
 
Bug One said:
Where did you get the £39,490‬?

I don't think a Tesla is expensive long term compared to ICE cars. Personally I think anyone spending this kind of money on anything other than electric is a bit insane. But, you do need to have that kind of money up front - or if not, be able to afford the monthly repayment for that amount.

Spending £800-900 a month on a loan repayment isn't a great way to 'save money'. I own my Leaf outright, and 'mostly' charge via solar - so the only actual cost now is the the yearly insurance. :cool:
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My invoice... what do you mean? You can order one right now on the Tesla website for £40,490 because they lowered the OLEV grant since I ordered.

The PCP offer that I was approved for before deciding on a cash purchase was £379.41 for 48 months (10k down, 15k balloon). There's better deals for just leasing but I always like to own (eventually). Equally, where are you getting £800-900 from?
 
[TW]Fox said:
He is suggesting you have ignored the cost of capital in your appraisal.
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Ahhh, gotcha. My business. I wouldn't have that kind of spare cash if I'd bought it as "me" hence the initial PCP approval with a deposit from selling our current diesel plus a small top up.

It's obivously a no-brainer for any business owner to do it that way, though, it was just a bit more complex for me because I've a business partner.
 
Russinating said:
My invoice... what do you mean? You can order one right now on the Tesla website for £40,490 because they lowered the OLEV grant since I ordered.

The PCP offer that I was approved for before deciding on a cash purchase was £379.41 for 48 months (10k down, 15k balloon). There's better deals for just leasing but I always like to own (eventually). Equally, where are you getting £800-900 from?
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You had to have £40 grand from somewhere to be able to pay in cash right? If you've got that kind of money sitting in the bank - then lucky you. But for the majority of us - that's quite a significant sum to spend on a car.

Also, 25k + 430/mo over two years is also quite a lot of money.
 
Bug One said:
You had to have £40 grand from somewhere to be able to pay in cash right? If you've got that kind of money sitting in the bank - then lucky you. But for the majority of us - that's quite a significant sum to spend on a car.

Also, 25k + 430/mo over two years is also quite a lot of money.
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See above :). I thought you meant the OTR price wasn't correct.
 
sovietspybob said:
While it is good that the government has made it a lot cheaper for companies to have electric cars for the majority of us who like me have to fund cars themselves it is still expensive.

All they've done for me is reduce the grant by £500 making the car more expensive and on the other hand made it so i don't have to pay luxury car tax on top so it does balance out in my favour but not by much.

I'm realistically looking at a Hyundai Ioniq as my next car unless i somehow come into enough money for a model 3 and even then there's a roughly 5-7k uplift if i want to go electric rather than the ICE version.

While i know i will save on road tax, currently about £180 i think and in fuel which may save me another £1000 ish per year it's still a long time before it becomes financially worth while. For me i'm a big fan of electric cars and will do it anyway but for the average joe there isn't much incentive at this time.
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If you're looking at the Ioniq, it might be worth contacting Arval.

They were financing cheap lease deals (~£235/month amortised, fully maintained) last October. Many of those cars were due to be delivered late March or early April, but now can't be due to Corona. So they're going to be sat in storage somewhere, falling in value and not making the finance company any money. Chances are, some customers will have cancelled due to the delay, or shifting financial circumstances. So they may be eager to get new customers signed up to take those cars as soon as lock down ends (or they may not, but it's worth enquiring).
 
Bug One said:
Where did you get the £39,490‬?

I don't think a Tesla is expensive long term compared to ICE cars. Personally I think anyone spending this kind of money on anything other than electric is a bit insane. But, you do need to have that kind of money up front - or if not, be able to afford the monthly repayment for that amount.

Spending £800-900 a month on a loan repayment isn't a great way to 'save money'. I own my Leaf outright, and 'mostly' charge via solar - so the only actual cost now is the the yearly insurance. :cool:
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As far as I'm aware a new Tesla Standard Range Plus is £39,500. So that's the same as £39,490 give or take £10.

In recent years company cars have become a proper burden rather than the perk they used to be. That's why most former company car drivers now get an allowance and drive their own cars and claim back a bit for fuel.

As a company car option, if I took, say, an Audi S4 Vorsprung (the new diesel one at about the same price as the Tesla with roughly similar kit and a bit less performance) that car would cost me £600-ish per month in BIK and then a further £297 per month in private fuel use BIK. That's £900/month I (and I do mean ME) have to pay the tax man. I can claim back nothing because the company pays for the fuel and servicing. Based on 20,000 miles per year the company would pay roughly £3000 per year for the fuel and about £700 per year for servicing and tyres.

If I get the Tesla, then I pay nothing this year. No BIK on the car, no BIK on fuel. I can claim back £0.04/mile for charging costs. So, on 10,000 business miles per year, I get £400 back in 'fuel'. And next year it will cost me £18/month and the following year £36 per month. Again, zero BIK on the fuel. This sounds like a great way to save money so far!

If I take a Model 3 Performance with the full self-driving package my employers get a tax reduction of almost £12,000 in this year's corporation tax, which is a straight-up saving. The company will finance the car, they won't buy it outright. I believe the finance rate is 5% over 3 years with a 20% deposit so the interest will be about £6700 over 3 years (or about half the tax saving) and I'm not sure how the depreciation will work, but they will still have an asset with a value at the end of my 3 years with the car. There is no VED on electric vehicles so the company saves a further £1400 on that over my 3 years of use. Servicing is about half the cost of an ICE car. So the company will save quite a bit vs. an ICE powered car.

If the company was based in Scotland they could borrow the full cost of the car (up to £120,000) interest free for 6 years.

So yes. I think both my employers and I are going to be a lot better off with an electric car. And with the Tesla hopefully I won't have range issues and no-one is going to complain about the performance...
 
Completely agree. If you can get it as a company car, then it's a no-brainer. Sadly, I doubt my employer will ever extend their generosity to a company car - especially seeing as I work from home. :p

But, this is missing the point that this isnt' a 'free' car. Your company is paying for the car - and you don't have to pay tax on that benefit. If you were in a position to do so - you might be able to negotiate that instead of a company car, you'd rather an extra £10k PA.
 
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I think what they are trying to say is "that's fine if you are the few % that can get a proper company car". For everyone else doing the PCP game the Tesla Model 3 SR+ is still going to be more than your average Beamer or Merc over the term because you have to pay sticker price for the Tesla and not even close to that for the ICE.
 
My view - the more people who are able to afford a Model 3 now, however they work it out / justify the outlay - the more that will be available in 2-3 years time on the second hand market.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
I think what they are trying to say is "that's fine if you are the few % that can get a proper company car". For everyone else doing the PCP game the Tesla Model 3 SR+ is still going to be more than your average Beamer or Merc over the term because you have to pay sticker price for the Tesla and not even close to that for the ICE.
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Yes. And no. The residuals on Tesla’s are excellent compared to ICE cars so unless the finance companies are being incredibly greedy (and I think Black Horse/Tesla are) then you should be able to get a PCP on a Tesla for the same as the equivalent ICE and the running costs should be much lower on top.

If you look at the cars that Tesla Model 3’s compete with they’re not the £300 per month bum-basic C-Class 180 and A4 35. Compare like with like (C43 Mercedes or Audi S4) and the financing is pretty similar.
 
More like a Mondeo really. The build quality is not up to C class standard. It's only so expensive because it's an EV.
 
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b0rn2sk8 said:
I quite fancy a Cyber Truck but then I also like the look of the BMW i3 so don't take any style tips from me....:D
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cyber truck will be full of nice tech and hopefully not silly expensive but it will be big for UK! nearly 6m long and well over 2m wide - the turning circle will be quite large for an average car park. then again its a steel truck so door dents wont be a problem. :P
 
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