EV general discussion

Robert said:
How much per month does it cost to charge your ev? I’m wondering if I’d save enough in fuel to afford an ev lease
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Answer will be different for everyone, but if we assume most people will be on a good EV specific electricity tariff then it will be 5-7ppkWh x size of the battery in kWh, plus 10% for charging losses.

So if you need to fully charge a 64kWh vehicle from (fictional) 0%, then it would be (£0.07 x 64)x1.1 = £4.93 - as for the mileage that will get you again it wold be different for every vehicle, how you drive it, and in what weather conditions. If you take a year round average that tends to be best, but for some summer mileage may be much higher due to family trips etc.

As for your leasing question, you've provided no data about your current costs, or mileage covered etc. so impossible to answer really.
 
Another way to look at it is cost per 100 miles. My 2021 Leaf costs me £1.63 of electricity per 100 miles although I have just started a switch to Tomato whose main cheap rate is 5p per unit (there are two others at 14.04p per unit) so my costs are going to drop even more. As a comparison my old car, a Ford B-Max 1.0 125bhp worked out around £15.45 per 100 miles with petrol at £1.36 a litre. Switching to a EV has been a massive cost cutting exercise for me and a very pleasant experience.
 
Looking at a home charging point now that all our cars will all be electric (and that I won’t be paying for it!). Was thinking hypervolt, seems to have lots of plus points. Have contacted a local installer for a quote. That or the Zappi.

Picking up the mini tomorrow hopefully :)
 
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I cant post photos said:
That's cool, I hear the sand is at least a bit warmer than the air atm so your head will be nice and cosy.
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Sure, because some deluded old man who collects ICE supercars says something about EV's we should pay attention. All the EU brands crying, and crying about losing sales, the Chinese are going to make them go bust.
 
Journey said:
Sure, because some deluded old man who collects ICE supercars says something about EV's we should pay attention. All the EU brands crying, and crying about losing sales, the Chinese are going to make them go bust.
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That man's forgotten more about cars and the car industry than you and I both will ever know, combined.

He also backs his points up with evidence and is very level headed.

Your opinion isn't really very relevant unfortunately.
 
ChatGPT Summary for those who don't fancy spending/wasting 20 minutes listening :p

Here's a summary of the transcript:

Overview of the Car Market​

  • The car market, particularly in the UK and Europe, is in turmoil due to conflicting strategies and unclear future directions for manufacturers.
  • There’s widespread uncertainty about electric vehicles (EVs) as manufacturers reevaluate their plans.

Manufacturer Announcements​

  1. Lotus: Initially focused on going fully electric, they've shifted to hybrids and range extenders due to low sales.
  2. Volvo: Backtracking on their all-electric plan for 2030, reinvesting in plug-in hybrids.
  3. BMW: Extending the lifespan of their V8 engines, particularly for the U.S. and Middle East markets, while offering a variety of powertrains (electric, hybrids, performance).
  4. Bentley: Abandoning plans to be fully electric by 2030, reintroducing internal combustion engine (ICE) development.
  5. Audi: Ceasing production of certain electric models (e.g., Q8 e-tron) due to weak demand for premium EVs.
  6. Porsche: Facing declining sales of electric models like the Taycan (down 40% in 2024) and struggling with profitability as EV development costs escalate.
  7. Aston Martin: Delaying their first EV to at least 2030, pivoting to hybrid models instead.

Why the Shift?​

  • Consumer dissatisfaction: Early adopters of EVs experienced problems, leading to loss of interest in premium electric cars.
  • Economic factors: The high costs of EV development and lower-than-expected profitability make manufacturers rethink strategies.
  • Hybrid cars gaining popularity: Improved plug-in hybrids, like the Range Rover Sport P460e, offer longer electric ranges and more practicality, leading many customers to opt for them over full EVs.

Historical Context​

  • The EV boom traces back to the fallout from Dieselgate in 2015. VW's emissions scandal led to stricter EU regulations (e.g., Euro 7) that made diesel and petrol engines more expensive to develop.
  • Manufacturers turned to EVs to sidestep these regulations and compete with Tesla's early success.
  • However, delays in Euro 7 implementation and advancements in ICE technology have kept combustion engines alive longer than expected.

Challenges with EV Adoption​

  1. Depreciation: Early EVs experienced rapid value drops in the used market, discouraging buyers.
  2. Practical issues: Range, charging infrastructure, and costs remain concerns for many consumers.
  3. Government policies: Some regulations fail to account for hybrids, treating them the same as high-emission ICE vehicles (e.g., the UK's zero-emission mandate).
  4. Global differences: While Europe pushes for electrification, markets like the U.S., India, and Japan are less committed, prompting manufacturers to maintain ICE options.

Taxation and Market Forces​

  • In France, high CO₂ and weight taxes on ICE vehicles push buyers towards hybrids or small EVs. For example:
    • A 2005 Renault Clio Trophy would face a €70,000 CO₂ tax today, making it unaffordable.
    • A Range Rover Defender D250 would incur €81,000 in taxes, while hybrids face no penalties.
  • The UK’s relatively low car taxes could increase to encourage EV adoption, which might affect market dynamics.

Future Outlook​

  • Small EVs on the rise: Affordable models like the Renault R5 and upcoming Fiat Panda EVs are expected to dominate the market, particularly in Europe.
  • Premium EV challenges: High development costs and diminishing demand make luxury electric cars less viable for manufacturers.
  • Hybrid growth: Plug-in hybrids are likely to remain popular due to their versatility and practicality.
  • Global inconsistencies: Electrification timelines will vary significantly across regions. While Europe leads the push, other major markets remain focused on hybrids and ICE vehicles.

Key Takeaways​

  • Electric isn’t for everyone: While EVs suit certain consumers, hybrids often offer a better balance of range, cost, and functionality.
  • Government policies need adjustment: Unrealistic timelines and regulations could harm the car industry without delivering meaningful CO₂ reductions.
  • Longer transition timeline: Full EV adoption globally might not happen until 2050 or later, far beyond the targets set by some governments.
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TLDR - is there anything original in what he said , just regurgitation of others material ? - maybe he uses chatgpt to create the agenda, or is a virtual presenter.
 
I cant post photos said:
That man's forgotten more about cars and the car industry than you and I both will ever know, combined.

He also backs his points up with evidence and is very level headed.

Your opinion isn't really very relevant unfortunately.
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That man has indeed forgotten lots, like what he thinks is irrelevant now as he'll be dead soon and the world he leaves behind is the important fact, not if he needs to stop for 20 mis to charge his car while towing his bloody horse box or trailer.

He sucks, my opinion couldn't give a crap if you agree or not, but dinosaurs like him are the reason we so slow to make change, while China eats up the world and advances towards global domination.
 
I cant post photos said:
That's cool, I hear the sand is at least a bit warmer than the air atm so your head will be nice and cosy.

@Jonnycoupe give it a watch, he makes some good points with evidence to back them up.
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There was no evidence in his video, it was purely his opinion.

It was also focussed on the very high end of the market where the emotion of the vehicle matters more than almost anything else, e.g. the 1%, not the 99% where most sales happen. The 'premium' segment is getting slaughtered on depreciation in the UK because of the tax incentives available here and high interest rates on used cars. The sort of person that can afford a 2-3 year old Porsche Tycan is also the sort of person that can afford to lease a new one thanks to all the tax incentives. Why would you buy a used one with a lol% interest rate on the finance when you can lease a new one for the same monthly outlay.

Of the 'premium' brands he highlighted, only 2 of them have a vehicle available to buy which is even remotely affordable for 'normal' people (Volvo and BMW) and those brands he highlighted the need to keep shipping ICE cars into markets outside of Europe. Audi ending production of the Q8 was expected, it's a Gen1 EV and has effectively been replaced by the Q6 which is technologically better in every way.

He even promoted the virtues of electric for the vast majority of people.
 
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I cant post photos said:
I mean, 26 years ago he started Evo magazine and has been a car journalist for most of his life.

If that's not enough cred then I don't think anyone will meet your criteria unfortunately.
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He swanned around Gaydon as a “consultant”. Journalist in their freebies are as from normals as you can get!!
 
The frothers in the comments section are hilarious, but also depressing, as these melts walk amongst us. Harry is using the likes of Porsche,Bentley, Lotus etc as a barometer for the market, they combined barely make a dent.

We should all be driving a 100k RRS PHEV just like Harry. He is clearly in the pocket of big oil.
 
Journey said:
dinosaurs like him are the reason we so slow to make change
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I tend to forget that reasoned discussion isn't on the cards in the EV thread, you're either a complete convert who prays at the altar of kilowatts or you're a "dinosaur".

I also see that in a thread where someone was asking about the brakes on a Micra, you recommended a used Nissan Leaf :cry:

It's like EV Bingo with you lot sometimes. Look, we get it, it works for you, that's great. I wish you all the best. I genuinely do. But for those of us who aren't keen on it for whatever reason, whether by choice or by circumstance, we're perfectly able to participate in these discussions and pose some questions. Just take it as it is, a discussion, not someone throwing shade at your car choices.
 
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