Bets thing to do, rather than just look at up front list prices, is to look at lease or PCP costs vs an ICE equivalent, then compare fuel, tax and servicing costs. You'll then be able to see at what mileage it breaks even. A simple spreadsheet, for most, I reckon.
EV general discussion
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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That £8.5k is for a battery lease version (which would have been about £6k cheaper to buy in the first place), the cheapest 3 year old battery owned 41kwh I can find is £15,800. Considering new they were going for £17-18k at one point (my "cash" price offer on Carwow was just under £18k), that's not bad.
The running costs are going to be significantly higher on a Tiguan unless you're doing very low mileage (in which case back to the question, why are you spending so much on a new car? Unless the cost is irrelevant, in which case why are you driving a Tiguan?).
I know not everyone is in the same circumstances, and I've already said before in this thread that electric cars aren't for everyone, but you need to take the whole cost of ownership into account, not just the upfront cost.
For the 15k miles I do:
Zoe cost:
£21k - £16k = £5k depreciation
36 x £20 = £720 electricity
£93 + £134 + £93 = £320 servicing
Total for 3 years: £6,040
No idea of the depreciation for a Tiguan, but just the running costs alone are higher than the total cost of the Zoe over that period.
36 x £170 = £6,120 petrol
£184 + £354 + £184 = £722 servicing
It may be more practical* but obviously you pay for that!
*I'm managing fine with 2 kids so far - I've had 1/4 ton of gravel in the back, no issues with trips to the dump, carried a whole bathroom suite in it, been on family camping trips with a surfboard on the roof etc...
Soldato
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But the Zoe from 2016 was from £14,245 according to autocar..
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/renault/zoe/first-drives/2016-renault-zoe-r90-ze40-signature
although you need to add about £6k if you buy the battery outright I think (or did) vs £60 a month for rental
I agree the time for mass adoption of Ev isnt here yet, but its great for those it suits and that group is expanding.
With some of the main manufacturers (such as Audi) now properly entering the market teh choice will come and the chances are some offerings will fit people further away from the niche group currently well suited
TBH those zoes for that price look an absolute bargain for people mainly town/city driving
You're right. EVs aren't for you.
Out of interest which EV do you have and what did it replace?
Soldato
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It's not just the price and range, EVs are great fun 
and the fact you can charge them up at home is brilliant
and the fact you can charge them up at home is brilliant
It's a sort of modern cult. Especially Tesla owners
Sometimes even cults have good parties!
So much fun.
I had a BMW X1 20d and replaced it with an Audi E-Tron 50. The Audi is through salary sacrifice from work and costs me £330 per month on a 2 year lease for the car, servicing, tyres, tax, insurance and a pod point charger at home. It is a genuinely amazing car for build quality, comfort and driving. The range is mediocre at ~160 - 180 miles but I have had zero issues with it on the few longish trips I have taken.
So a big saving on outlay each month and the car itself is better in most (not all) respects. My issue with EV is the update is painfully slow and it's because of high initial outlay for what people perceive as mediocre cars, poor infrastructure and the perception of range anxiety. One of those issues is psychological and can be rationalised away to those who listen. The others will require a much better government initiative to get people moving to EV because the current one is failing if we look at the current adoption rate numbers.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
The irony is the person saying people won't get them, has one, and used the very method lots of people use to get any vehicle these days, a lease! Which funnily enough means TCO means much more than the sticker price of the car, and where the higher residuals mean lower monthly costs.
Soldato
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I think the salary sacrifice is clearly the incentive that, even when the downsides are considered, it’s a no brainer.
It's a sort of modern cult. Especially Tesla owners
Will you be daily driving your Lotus over the winter?
The number of people using leasing for a personal car is very small - the overwhelming majority of cars are financed through PCP or HP and not leasing.
The overwhelming majority is PCP, which over 70% of people hand back at the end for either another car, or just to get rid of it, so effectively a lease. PCH is increasing massively year over year, and in 2018 it was something like 1.6 million personal cars on a PCH 'lease'. Hire purchase is at its lowest ever in history way below PCH and PCP.
As I said people care about a monthly cost (maybe not you), a fixed out going, and if they see a PCH at £296pm for a Hyundai Kona Electric, with a tiny fuel bill, vs. a Hyundai Kona diesel on PCP at £220pm + the fuel, then it's hardly a stretch to see why more people are considering it now.
It goes back to TCO, which was the point in the first place, and more first party dealers are pushing PCH as well as PCP, you even hear radio adverts for it now which was something that didn't happen two years ago, it was all PCP.
A PCP is not a lease. It really is that simple. You are taking a loan secured on the car for the cars entire value and it is reflected as such on your credit file.
A lease is handled completely differently, as it's a long term hire car.
Pretty sure that is why I said 'effectively' are are you just trying to argue for arguments sake? People treat it like they don't own the car as like I said over 70% swap it, or hand it back, with zero intention of ever paying off the loan.
But to be honest what is the point in having the discussion, might as well talk to a brick wall.
As I said before, I absolutely agree with you on the infrastructure point - it's terrible, and if my usage was different and I relied on public charging more then I wouldn't have moved to EV. The financials however are a very good argument to go electric. Even ignoring the ridiculous value of salary sacrifice with the current 0% BIK, if we're looking at purely monthly costs then the high initial outlay is irrelevant and the argument falls even more firmly towards EV. A quick look at PCP using the Zoe/Tiguan examples above:
36 months/30k, 3 months up front
Zoe GT Line R135 with CCS (basically the highest you can go): £285.61 (Optional £15.97 maintenance)
Tiguan 1.4 TSi 125 SE Nav 5dr (which I believe is the lowest model?): £313.20 (Optional £17.46 maintenance)
Just on the PCP cost you're saving almost £30/month, and that's before you have to pay for petrol.
For something more comparable to the Tiguan in terms of "practicality", the MG ZS electric offers ridiculous value @ £290/month
I wouldn't say I'm an "EV Zealot" but it does annoy me when people post things which are simply untrue, or don't take into account the whole picture. If you want to focus purely on upfront cost, then the cheapest possible motoring is this (suspiciously cheap!) £75 Astra and we'll ignore the costs of any repairs etc. which it will inevitably need in the near future
No, I'm trying to stop you claiming a PCP is a lease. It isn't. It's a form of finance secured on the vehicle, it's fundamentally different as are the options at the end (it is almost never the optimal decision to simply walk off at the end of a PCP).