EV general discussion

[Russinating]

Wouldn't it be nice if people adopted EV because it was genuinely better rather than because ICE was made artificially awful through speed restrictions and EV made better through tax breaks.

EV's are apparently the best cars ever, so why do we need to make the alternatives awful to get people to move?

Because most people are set in their ways and we're creatures of habit, so it takes more to make people change than logic, 'good' and a few benefits (if any). That's generally, not specific to motors.

 

[Basher]

Wouldn't it be nice if people adopted EV because it was genuinely better rather than because ICE was made artificially awful through speed restrictions and EV made better through tax breaks.

EV's are apparently the best cars ever, so why do we need to make the alternatives awful to get people to move?

It's fairly common practice to offer incentives to drive change.

 

[ICDP]

Wouldn't it be nice if people adopted EV because it was genuinely better rather than because ICE was made artificially awful through speed restrictions and EV made better through tax breaks.

EV's are apparently the best cars ever, so why do we need to make the alternatives awful to get people to move?

Funny, I was asked a very similar question the other day. Me and 3 other friends sat chatting over a few beers and the only one of us without an EV said, if EVs were so good why are people not buying them. I reminded him that we are all in our mid 40s to early 50s and all with decades experience of driving ICE cars. I also reminded him that even a year ago 3 of us had ICE with one running an EV and we all used to ridicule the EV owner for ***** and giggles. Yet here we are a year later and 3 of us are telling him that EVs are a better experience overall.

I have decades of experience driving ICE cars and 1 year driving an EV. There simply is no contest that an EV drives better, is quieter, more comfortable and I would only go ICE reluctantly. Getting into my wife's ICE car is night and day compared to the EV. My 8 year old son put it more succinctly when he said, "mummy's car is very shaky".

ICE does have advantages but when taken overall the advantages of EV just leave the ICE utterly lacking.

I don't mind people who try both and prefer ICE, what I do mind is people who clearly haven't a clue coming out with pure nonsense that EVs have to be given a crutch to appear as good as an ICE car. I tend to find they aren't even talking from experience and ironically I was like them just over a year ago.

 

[Journey]

Because most people are set in their ways and we're creatures of habit, so it takes more to make people change than logic, 'good' and a few benefits (if any). That's generally, not specific to motors.

It also boils down to cost, as more money for most people will make a great excuse for not changing, but apparently a lot of people are daft and think a technology that isn't mass produced over the last 100+ years should be immediately cheaper for some weird reason.
Reminds me a bit of the early TFT monitors compared to a good CRT, people were happy to just save a bit of desk space, while spending twice the price, lose higher resolutions and refresh rates, and put up with terrible colour depth and viewing angles, but it was thinner so was better, it has taken a long time to get them to near parity and show the benefits.

You'd have to pay me to switch back to ICE, as for me they are just too inconvenient and expensive to run from a TCO POV.

 

[sparkymark75]

My point put across more eloquently than I can. The facts bore me to be honest.
Common sense is sufficient to see its all a lie.

https://youtu.be/BXDhIz2ge5M

Let’s hope the JCB hydrogen route is better.

Weird how fossil fuel burners now suddenly care about the environment!

 

[SkodaMart]

Weird how fossil fuel burners now suddenly care about the environment!

It’s got nothing to do with the environment.
It’s purely legislation that’s being FORCED upon us with great personal cost and inconvenience to many.
I ‘get’ the current personal financial benefits of EV, but trust me non of you are saving the planet.
If you want to do that buy a push bike and stop taking foreign holidays to start with.

 

[Nasher]

And also turn the heating/AC off and don't have kids.

 

[Russinating]

It’s got nothing to do with the environment.
It’s purely legislation that’s being FORCED upon us with great personal cost and inconvenience to many.
I ‘get’ the current personal financial benefits of EV, but trust me non of you are saving the planet.
If you want to do that buy a push bike and stop taking foreign holidays to start with.

What have cycling and flying got to do with the price of bread? EVs are better for the environment than ICEs, most importantly in terms of urban pollution.

 

[jpaul]

It also boils down to cost, as more money for most people will make a great excuse for not changing, but apparently a lot of people are daft and think a technology that isn't mass produced over the last 100+ years should be immediately cheaper for some weird reason.

old ground - the government carrot/bik for company car drivers, sold them, alone, for TCO, but, private owners, subsidising that, remain disadvantaged -
whereas Norway, say, more equitable - https://blog.wallbox.com/en/norway-ev-incentives/

Spoiler: excerpt

• No purchase tax or VAT – drivers are exempt from both purchase tax and VAT when buying or leasing a new or pre-owned EV.

• No road traffic insurance tax – EV owners are exempt from paying annual road traffic insurance tax.

• Company car tax discount – depending on the year of manufacture, EV owners can receive a discount on company car tax. Check here to calculate your company car’s tax discount.

Local incentives

• Half price tolls – Norwegian law states that EVs owners should be charged a maximum of 50% of standard toll prices on roads and ferries.

• Half price parking – at the moment, it’s up to each municipality to set parking prices for EVs. However, a law has been passed and regulations will soon come into play stating that EV owners should be charged a maximum of 50% of the cost of standard parking.

• Use of bus and taxi lanes – EV owners have access to almost all bus and taxi lanes. There are occasions when access is not permitted, so it is advisable to look out for road signs

saying that, there do seem some increasingly good deals if delivery is genuinely availible
id3 ~ £80p/w id3 10k 36months https://www.whatcar.com/car-leasing...rer_id=86&range_id=r4496&mileage_id=0&type=0&
even more attractive with no VAT.

 

[SkodaMart]

What have cycling and flying got to do with the price of bread? EVs are better for the environment than ICEs, most importantly in terms of urban pollution.

So you are told.
Was it the lack of cars, or the lack of aeroplanes that made the air noticeably better during the covid lockdown?
Certainly don’t spout about the environment and then get on a plane for a 2 weeks holiday.

 

[ICDP]

So you are told.
Was it the lack of cars, or the lack of aeroplanes that made the air noticeably better during the covid lockdown?
Certainly don’t spout about the environment and then get on a plane for a 2 weeks holiday.

So if people drive an EV should they be barred from getting on an aeroplane? Or maybe they should be barred from using non-recyclable coffee cups? Or refuse to use electricity that has not been 100% proven to come from green sources? I would also wager you drive an ICE and have used air travel. So technically someone owning an EV is doing way more than you for the planet.

You will find the answer to your implication that air travel pollutes more than car travel is not what you think it is, BOTH had a large factor in reducing air polution. You should also not forget that just because air travel is bad does not mean we should make no efforts in other areas. Or do you genuinely think tackling ICE emissions is pointless because aeroplanes also pollute? Surely it's worth trying to reduce carbon emissions where possible?

https://youmatter.world/en/plane-or-cars-which-means-of-transport-pollutes-the-most/

https://www.cambridge.gov.uk/air-pollution-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic

Like it or not EV are better for the environment, even the often quoted "EVs are made in factories that pllute the air" means nothing, because so are ICE cars. People tend to ingnre that as soon as the EV comes of the production line it no longer pollutes the air like the diesel/petrol.

 

[Russinating]

So you are told.
Was it the lack of cars, or the lack of aeroplanes that made the air noticeably better during the covid lockdown?
Certainly don’t spout about the environment and then get on a plane for a 2 weeks holiday.

As above, what are you talking about?

 

[m4rmite]

It’s got nothing to do with the environment.
It’s purely legislation that’s being FORCED upon us with great personal cost and inconvenience to many.
I ‘get’ the current personal financial benefits of EV, but trust me non of you are saving the planet.
If you want to do that buy a push bike and stop taking foreign holidays to start with.

it's less polluting for a plane full of people going to and from the same place ,than all of them driving their own vehicle to/from the same place.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/flight/modern/question192.htm
A plane like a Boeing 747 uses approximately 1 gallon of fuel (about 4 liters) every second. Over the course of a 10-hour flight, it might burn 36,000 gallons (150,000 liters). According to Boeing's Web site, the 747 burns approximately 5 gallons of fuel per mile (12 liters per kilometer).

This sounds like a tremendously poor miles-per-gallon rating! But consider that a 747 can carry as many as 568 people. Let's call it 500 people to take into account the fact that not all seats on most flights are occupied. A 747 is transporting 500 people 1 mile using 5 gallons of fuel. That means the plane is burning 0.01 gallons per person per mile. In other words, the plane is getting 100 miles per gallon per person! The typical car gets about 25 miles per gallon, so the 747 is much better than a car carrying one person, and compares favorably even if there are four people in the car. Not bad when you consider that the 747 is flying at 550 miles per hour (900 km/h)!

 

[Jonnycoupe]

So you are told.
Was it the lack of cars, or the lack of aeroplanes that made the air noticeably better during the covid lockdown?
Certainly don’t spout about the environment and then get on a plane for a 2 weeks holiday.

better than going on two 1 week holidays… What’s your point?

walking around town now diesel is just nasty. End of.

 

[jpaul]

it's less polluting for a plane full of people going to and from the same place ,than all of them driving their own vehicle to/from the same place.

isn't it the upper atmosphere pollution that makes the airliner 'n' times worse (versus terrestrial consumption), plus the other oils being released - maybe it was Greta/DA that told me - thought it was something like one years car ownership is equivalent to a transatlantic flight.

 

[Greebo]

it's less polluting for a plane full of people going to and from the same place ,than all of them driving their own vehicle to/from the same place.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/flight/modern/question192.htm
A plane like a Boeing 747 uses approximately 1 gallon of fuel (about 4 liters) every second. Over the course of a 10-hour flight, it might burn 36,000 gallons (150,000 liters). According to Boeing's Web site, the 747 burns approximately 5 gallons of fuel per mile (12 liters per kilometer).

This sounds like a tremendously poor miles-per-gallon rating! But consider that a 747 can carry as many as 568 people. Let's call it 500 people to take into account the fact that not all seats on most flights are occupied. A 747 is transporting 500 people 1 mile using 5 gallons of fuel. That means the plane is burning 0.01 gallons per person per mile. In other words, the plane is getting 100 miles per gallon per person! The typical car gets about 25 miles per gallon, so the 747 is much better than a car carrying one person, and compares favorably even if there are four people in the car. Not bad when you consider that the 747 is flying at 550 miles per hour (900 km/h)!

1. Nobody would ever drive a car the same distance
2. typical cars dont do "25 miles per gallon"
3. The argument was people should give up flying as well as getting an EV car so your comparison to ICE cars is null and void.
4. when cruising the 747 might only burn 5 gallons per mile but take off uses a tonne more
5. if you look at smaller passenger planes like the 737-800 then its only using 2.246 gallon per mile but only carries 160 passengers so its much less then 100 miles per gallon per passenger
6. You are comparing it to every car only having a single passenger, once you compare to cars carrying a family say on a long holiday journey to there are 4 people in the car and and much more realistic 40mpg from the car then you find airplanes are terrible in comparison.

 

[ICDP]

Why are people comparing apples to oranges because most car journeys are with a single driver and no passengers. Even if a plane holds 160 passengers that is the equivalent of 40 cars all carrying 4 passengers (i.e. very unlikely). There is also the fact that there are significantly more cars on the roads than aeroplanes flying.

So all in all (as the links below show) cars and aeroplanes pollute a lot, or bad enough that both need tackled. We are arguing over if being stabbed through the heart or the bullet through the head would be more fatal.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/do-planes-pollute-more-than-cars/

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news...lanes-and-ships-facts-and-figures-infographic

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2010/sep/09/carbon-emissions-planes-shipping

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Weird thread again. Need to think macro guys, when I step out of Greggs and gulp in a lung of diesel fumes it ain’t from an airplane.

 

[RoboCod]

So you are told.
Was it the lack of cars, or the lack of aeroplanes that made the air noticeably better during the covid lockdown?
Certainly don’t spout about the environment and then get on a plane for a 2 weeks holiday.

What do you drive?

 

[Bear]

Weird thread again. Need to think macro guys, when I step out of Greggs and gulp in a lung of diesel fumes it ain’t from an airplane.

Was it the Greggs delivery truck?