EV general discussion

Just had our Hypervolt fitted today, looks pretty neat. The finish on the front isn’t what I’d expected - I thought it might be a smooth/glossy white plastic. It it has a coarse texture, a bit like stonechip from a Schultz gun so would blend in nicely against a rendered wall of a similar colour.

The app seems to do everything we’d need, including putting in a day/night tariff (i.e. Octopus Go) and setup scheduled charging. The leds can be very bright…they can also be off ;)
 
Scottland said:
Just had our Hypervolt fitted today, looks pretty neat. The finish on the front isn’t what I’d expected - I thought it might be a smooth/glossy white plastic. It it has a coarse texture, a bit like stonechip from a Schultz gun so would blend in nicely against a rendered wall of a similar colour.

The app seems to do everything we’d need, including putting in a day/night tariff (i.e. Octopus Go) and setup scheduled charging. The leds can be very bright…they can also be off ;)
Click to expand...

They can also be 2 levels in between. The app has 4 settings on it including off.
 
So, erm, I was fully EV for a few years and I’ve gone back to petrol in the form of a mild hybrid. I had a BMW i3s for two years and an E-Golf after that and at one point was doing 30k miles a year so had plenty of experience charging on the road. A lot of this is the change in my circumstances, but broadly:

  • the rapid charging infrastructure situation is getting worse. Players like BP are buying established networks and not maintaining them, leading to previously reliable locations now being consistently offline. Increased uptake is leading to more congestion of the sites that are working. If you drive a Tesla, or your needs align with one of the few genuine hubs en route, then it works well but otherwise it’s hopeless and worse than it was 3 years ago. I was at Gretna Green the other day and there was a huge queue for the Tesla chargers, so even their network is now creaking and not keeping up from an expansion perspective. Given the anecdotal explosion in demand/interest I’m seeing from colleagues and friends this is going to get very, very painful unless you do all your charging at home.
  • My usage is changing - working from home for the foreseeable now, so less cheap home charging and daily commuting and more charging on the road. The car regularly sits unused for 2-3 weeks and then we may do a 300 mile journey at peak time which really doesn’t lend itself well to EV economics or convenience.
  • Energy cost - I think people are in for a shock here. My home fixed deal ended and we now pay 20p+ per kWh, and rapid charging costs also keep going up. Petrol is now similar per mile if you don’t charge at home and have a reasonably economical car. We can’t go on a Eco7 plan as we work from home and have a heat pump. This makes the higher capital cost of an EV more difficult to justify. There are also some costs people just don’t talk about - insuring our normal hybrid was half as much as an electric Golf.
  • I don’t want an SUV, and couldn’t find a decent estate.
I’ll be back once the infrastructure, in the form of large hubs, is more ubiquitous. I enjoyed being a pioneer but it needs to be the correct tool for the job and I’m not willing to pay too much of a financial premium to be an early adopter. You really have to question your choices when your changing a newborn on the back seat of a car in the corner of a Bannatynes car park, in the dark, and peeing in a bush because that’s the only working 50kw charger for 10miles. Or when someone gets confrontational when you’re trying to explain, when you’re waiting for a rapid, that charging the last 5% is pointless in terms of time. It just isn’t worth the stress and I already I think the peak EV early adopter environment is behind us.

We have a very cheap second runabout we may consider switching to EV, but for now it’s back to a Toyota hybrid for our main car.
 
Interesting view there. I think that early adopter energy and patience is waning like you say and now normal humans have them, they are abusing the charging, leaving connectors dropped on the floor, parking in charge bays not connected 'cos i have an electric car' and being a bit knobby about getting a shift on.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Interesting view there. I think that early adopter energy and patience is waning like you say and now normal humans have them, they are abusing the charging, leaving connectors dropped on the floor, parking in charge bays not connected 'cos i have an electric car' and being a bit knobby about getting a shift on.
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interesting. Certainly seeing a noticable higher amount of ev and tesla on the road out and about now, was down south recently and they are just another car now, also saw loads of older model s so probably at the point where early adopters are moving on to new car and the s/h market is opening up.


Is there an etiquette guide for ev charging anywhere. Like is it considered super rude to fill up to 100% if theres a queue. What’s the protocol.
 
whitecrook said:
Is there an etiquette guide for ev charging anywhere. Like is it considered super rude to fill up to 100% if theres a queue. What’s the protocol.
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Use what you need and move on is the general "etiquette" - you do get idiots, like any walk of life, that will sit on fast chargers for hours etc. But some now have "overstay" fees etc depending on where they are etc.

Just talk to other people, most EV drivers are friendly bunch and happy to help etc

The one thing that annoys me currently about some EV drivers is they believe that Charging spaces which are generally very clearly marked, can also be used by EV drivers to simply park in. i.e not actually charge. Very annoying as it's not for that.
 
whitecrook said:
Is there an etiquette guide for ev charging anywhere. Like is it considered super rude to fill up to 100% if theres a queue. What’s the protocol.
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I'm looking to get into the world of EV ownership and I would also like to know what you do when you arrive at a charging station and the stalls are fully occupied. Is there a queuing system in place? Or some unwritten rules to follow?
Also, from what I hear, it is frowned upon to got to 100% whilst others are waiting.
 
Matthew.M said:
So, erm, I was fully EV for a few years and I’ve gone back to petrol in the form of a mild hybrid. I had a BMW i3s for two years and an E-Golf after that and at one point was doing 30k miles a year so had plenty of experience charging on the road. A lot of this is the change in my circumstances, but broadly:

  • Energy cost - I think people are in for a shock here. My home fixed deal ended and we now pay 20p+ per kWh, and rapid charging costs also keep going up. Petrol is now similar per mile if you don’t charge at home and have a reasonably economical car. We can’t go on a Eco7 plan as we work from home and have a heat pump. This makes the higher capital cost of an EV more difficult to justify. There are also some costs people just don’t talk about - insuring our normal hybrid was half as much as an electric Golf.
  • I don’t want an SUV, and couldn’t find a decent estate.
Click to expand...

Interesting -
Following your ev odyssey - whose mild hybrid did you go for ? for any particular technical merits, ergonomics ... just a good deal
for longer term/2nd hand ownership,anyway, their additional mechanical systems, strike me as more a reliability concern.

How does the (air?) heat pump preclude getting the likes of octopus with their ~5p unit
 
jpaul said:
Interesting -
Following your ev odyssey - whose mild hybrid did you go for ? for any particular technical merits, ergonomics ... just a good deal
for longer term/2nd hand ownership,anyway, their additional mechanical systems, strike me as more a reliability concern.

How does the (air?) heat pump preclude getting the likes of octopus with their ~5p unit
Click to expand...


Most of our home energy usage is in the day with two adults working from home so we heat/cool the house in the daytime. I can’t shift our usage overnight to use cheap rates enough to offset higher day rates on economy 7 tariffs. Octopus Go is the one thing I’ve had pointed out to me elsewhere which I need to research more thoroughly to be fair, but we don’t currently have a smart meter either. This is somewhat academic as my issue was most of my journeys are longer and would require charging away from home, and most networks are now c.40p per unit and comparable to petrol in cost per mile.

I purchased a 2020 Toyota Corolla Estate hybrid. The Toyota HSD drivetrain is bombproof (likely evidenced at your local taxi rank) and the hybrid residuals seem strong. I absolutely detest their “self charging” advertising campaign but it’s a solid product when you know you’re just buying a petrol essentially with brake regen. You can’t plug it in, but in stop start traffic you still get that relaxing silent EV effect and instant pickup (albeit not as pronounced). I’ve averaged 69mpg over the last 3k miles and that’s with all sorts of mixed use and a 1500 mile return trip to Scotland. I don’t drive consciously for economy and always aim to make good progress. There also aren’t many EV options in the estate realm and I really wanted the boot capacity without going SUV. The equipment level is now really good with adaptive cruise and lane assist standard etc.

If I was still commuting and charging mostly at home I would’ve made it work, but I’ve come to detest charging away from home. So many networks and locations are truly not fit for purpose and some people’s attitudes to queuing and treatment of the equipment/charging curve is very poor. In some instances this is from genuine gaps in knowledge and they’re open to a sensible discussion, but a lot are not. Any stress from this is magnified 10x when the family is in tow and you just want to get onto your destination. Until there are forecourts with 10x chargers all over the place it’s not something I’ve enjoyed relying on and can only see it getting worse with numbers of EVs being delivered vs expansion of the networks. I lurk on some Tesla forums and complaints of queues are getting much more prevalent.
 
In my travels I used to see 20 Tesla chargers and a handful of Teslas, now see many more Teslas, often nearly full....then down the back/round the corner/tucked away.....2 peasant chargers. :cry:

(* Not extensive research :p)
 
whitecrook said:
interesting. Certainly seeing a noticable higher amount of ev and tesla on the road out and about now, was down south recently and they are just another car now, also saw loads of older model s so probably at the point where early adopters are moving on to new car and the s/h market is opening up.


Is there an etiquette guide for ev charging anywhere. Like is it considered super rude to fill up to 100% if theres a queue. What’s the protocol.
Click to expand...

The suggestion is get to 80% then charge again elsewhere as it slows down so much on many cars (some will still monster the charge rate and thats okay). Generally that last 80% will get you to a destination anyway and if you need to stop again you can using more of the 50kW rate the charger offers rather than dribbling in at 11kWw... 8kW etc.

Last week i went deeper into Cornwall than my previous trip and some pleb in his i3 parked and left it to get to 100%. He didn't return once full as i could see him still sat outside the services at a table. Tempted to go and tell him to shift but the couple in MG ZS waiting i suggested to try taking the charger out now it had 'charge complete' on the screen. Fortunately it came out... else i would probably caused a bit of a scene with the i3S driver..... private plate aswell. Knob.

I stopped at Jamaica Inn and charged there with a pint.:D
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Interesting view there. I think that early adopter energy and patience is waning like you say and now normal humans have them, they are abusing the charging, leaving connectors dropped on the floor, parking in charge bays not connected 'cos i have an electric car' and being a bit knobby about getting a shift on.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. Combined with a lack of maintenance taking chargers offline. BP’s network is now a no go and Ecotricity have been terrible for years (albeit the new owner seems to have better intentions). The best ones in my experience were Ionity and Instavolt. Ionity is very expensive at 69p per kwh without a discount, and Instavolt have some very odd locations.

it’s improving. Rugby services is great. Gridserve hubs are great. But these are few and far between. It’ll be many many years until they’re common.

Charging at home is a great experience. Everything else, not so much.
 
So at 69p/kwh. And lets say 300watt/hours a mile. That means then its about 3-4 miles of charge for 69p??? Is that right? Thats more expensive than a petrol car. Is my maths right?
 
Matthew.M said:
Most of our home energy usage is in the day with two adults working from home so we heat/cool the house in the daytime. I can’t shift our usage overnight to use cheap rates enough to offset higher day rates on economy 7 tariffs. Octopus Go is the one thing I’ve had pointed out to me elsewhere which I need to research more thoroughly to be fair, but we don’t currently have a smart meter either. This is somewhat academic as my issue was most of my journeys are longer and would require charging away from home, and most networks are now c.40p per unit and comparable to petrol in cost per mile.

I purchased a 2020 Toyota Corolla Estate hybrid. The Toyota HSD drivetrain is bombproof (likely evidenced at your local taxi rank) and the hybrid residuals seem strong. I absolutely detest their “self charging” advertising campaign but it’s a solid product when you know you’re just buying a petrol essentially with brake regen. You can’t plug it in, but in stop start traffic you still get that relaxing silent EV effect and instant pickup (albeit not as pronounced). I’ve averaged 69mpg over the last 3k miles and that’s with all sorts of mixed use and a 1500 mile return trip to Scotland. I don’t drive consciously for economy and always aim to make good progress. There also aren’t many EV options in the estate realm and I really wanted the boot capacity without going SUV. The equipment level is now really good with adaptive cruise and lane assist standard etc.

If I was still commuting and charging mostly at home I would’ve made it work, but I’ve come to detest charging away from home. So many networks and locations are truly not fit for purpose and some people’s attitudes to queuing and treatment of the equipment/charging curve is very poor. In some instances this is from genuine gaps in knowledge and they’re open to a sensible discussion, but a lot are not. Any stress from this is magnified 10x when the family is in tow and you just want to get onto your destination. Until there are forecourts with 10x chargers all over the place it’s not something I’ve enjoyed relying on and can only see it getting worse with numbers of EVs being delivered vs expansion of the networks. I lurk on some Tesla forums and complaints of queues are getting much more prevalent.
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Octopus Go is only something like 14.7p day and 5p night, sounds ideal for you. Even without a car to charge the 14.7p per kwh is a massive saving over your current electric!
 
whitecrook said:
So at 69p/kwh. And lets say 300watt/hours a mile. That means then its about 3-4 miles of charge for 69p??? Is that right? Thats more expensive than a petrol car. Is my maths right?
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Yes but only once you have used the home electricity first… but then I only ever used to use motorway services fuel to get me home aswell.

Ionity is mad, it’s almost like they have priced uncompetitively so that the OEMS who invested in it get preferential rates for their own vehicles and customers… oh wait, they did :D:p
 
I’ll look into it, thanks. I ran a comparison on some of the sites and couldn’t see any current rates offered under 20p. But you’re not the only person to mention that to me so I’ll sit down tonight to research!
 
Matthew.M said:
I purchased a 2020 Toyota Corolla Estate hybrid. The Toyota HSD drivetrain is bombproof (likely evidenced at your local taxi rank) and the hybrid residuals seem strong.
Click to expand...
good choice - the strongest yes - nearly posted this the other day

51418326677_2a6c507f57_c_d.jpg

couldn't see why people would be fighting for convertibles, though
 
Do any of you tesla driving people ever charge up publicly at a non tesla charger ? Is this whole ionity and third party thing mostly a problem for non tesla cars?

and is tesla charge cost rates the same nationwide? Or is it regionalised?

thanks
 
jpaul said:
good choice - the strongest yes - nearly posted this the other day


couldn't see why people would be fighting for convertibles, though
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Convertibles always rise in spring and post covid with people having lots of money to burn and people stuck in the UK for the whole summer, demand for convertibles was higher than ever.

Even my boss bought a Volvo C70 as a cheap ragtop for summer and just sold it (for £1000 more than he bought it for in May though!)
 
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