EV general discussion

b0rn2sk8 · 7 Feb 2022 at 15:22

Jonnycoupe said:
I think it’s more a case of that what’s your get if the batteries aren’t warmed from ambient. You cant expect a car to keep battery’s warmer than ambient.

Agreed the warming isn’t great. No sure about software, if the 7kW heater is putting coolant into the battery at the same time air, spray and cold snow is taking heat out it’s a problem.

unfortunately for BMW it looks like the same issue as the IPACE and the cooling plate is on the bottom of the cells close to that massive heat sink baseplate.

It’s all about trade offs though isn’t it?

My making the battery perform better in very cold climates, you make it perform worse when ragging it down the autobahn in the height of summer.

Let’s face it, very few people actually live in these cold climates compared to more temperate locations. Nearly everyone else, including U.K. buyers will want better performance in warmer weather.

Jonnycoupe · 7 Feb 2022 at 15:36

b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s all about trade offs though isn’t it?

My making the battery perform better in very cold climates, you make it perform worse when ragging it down the autobahn in the height of summer.

Let’s face it, very few people actually live in these cold climates compared to more temperate locations. Nearly everyone else, including U.K. buyers will want better performance in warmer weather.

No it’s not really a trade, more an error state. I’m not sure I get the point you are making but I can see the logic. The battery as a cooling system surface has only really been referenced on the recent EQXX concept to allow the full cooling system vanes to close at light road load. It’s not really a thing, just a good way to lose heat which is precious on an EV.

High speed cooling will be liquid and often a large amount of condensing performance. Often cars do have to now chose between keeping the powertrain or cabin cool as it can’t do both. It’s repeated a Acceleration and decell that will cook a battery, the motor continuous rating will bottleneck any battery thermal limits.

This is the problem with the Tesla consumption figures I personally see, they have phantom drain, large power use warming then after said charge the remaining journey is often taken as the efficiency for their general consumption.

jpaul · 7 Feb 2022 at 15:37

i4 cold gate ... waiting 10minutes for the the 60->127kw charge rate hadn't seemed too bad, you could arrive at the charger and find there is a queue anyway, so you could have pushed energy in unecessarily, also whilst you are travelling the air stream is fighting against the warm up / pre-condition.

Skidder · 8 Feb 2022 at 14:10

anyone got a mustang mach-e? any thoughts?

Debating whether to keep my mini countryman hybrid for a bit longer or change to mach-e or something else compltely electric in the summer

Mini has been excellent, my wife's short boring commute is all electric

chanjy · 8 Feb 2022 at 14:42

Skidder said:
anyone got a mustang mach-e? any thoughts?

Debating whether to keep my mini countryman hybrid for a bit longer or change to mach-e or something else compltely electric in the summer

Mini has been excellent, my wife's short boring commute is all electric

Any reason you're looking at the Mach E in particular? Price? Range? Size?

Skidder · 8 Feb 2022 at 17:36

chanjy said:
Any reason you're looking at the Mach E in particular? Price? Range? Size?

I'm open minded have looked at load of reviews. I need something with a hatchback due to having a dog. But don't particularly want something massive having weened us off bigger SUVs (had a couple of x5s on the trot prior to Mini) Looking at the longer range 4wd version. Reasonable range is important to me but i have a camper van if range anxiety an issue for a particular journey and for really long stuff I would probably be in that anyway.

I quite like the look of mach e but not wed to it.

Suggest away. Have 2 kids so space for 4 and a dog. Electric is good for me tax wise. I nearly bought i-Pace last car but decided against it but liked it very much. Company car allowance is approx 700 but can add or take away.

Journey · 8 Feb 2022 at 17:40

Skidder said:
I quite like the look of mach e but not wed to it.

Kia EV6? Lovely vehicle IMO, even if it is an SUV.

Skidder · 8 Feb 2022 at 17:44

Journey said:
Kia EV6? Lovely vehicle IMO, even if it is an SUV.

Yeah have watched a couple of v good reviews. Wife is a badge snob but should prob try to get her in one

One option I have is to pay balloon on mini and wait a bit. Is there anything interesting coming out over the next year or so?

Jonnycoupe · 8 Feb 2022 at 17:44

2 kids and a dog. I’m not sure the EV6 has a credible boot for that.

Journey · 8 Feb 2022 at 17:48

Skidder said:
Yeah have watched a couple of v good reviews. Wife is a badge snob but should prob try to get her in one

Badge snob.. Ford... :cry:

Sorry I mean Mustang.

You should 100% get her in one and go for a test drive.

Skidder said:
One option I have is to pay balloon on mini and wait a bit. Is there anything interesting coming out over the next year or so?

Absolutely stacks of new EV's coming out in 2022/23, not sure how many of them as SUV's though.

Have you looked at the BMW iX? Or is the budget not big enough for it?

Also camper van, VW ID.Buzz is out very soon. Looks amazing.

b0rn2sk8 · 8 Feb 2022 at 18:58

ID.4, Enyaq, EV6, Ionic V, Mach-E, Model Y are all pretty similar in that regard. All have their advantages and disadvantages. Out of this bunch of probably get a Model Y or EV6.

Q4 etron is a bit more expensive and a plusher version of the ID4 and Enyaq.

In all of these cars the RWD long range versions are the sweet spot IMO.

I would have thought the boot in all of them would be fine for a dog, they are all pretty big even if they are raked somewhat.

If you want something more estate like then your only option is an MG5, not sure that will work for a badge snob though

chanjy · 8 Feb 2022 at 20:10

Skidder said:
I'm open minded have looked at load of reviews. I need something with a hatchback due to having a dog. But don't particularly want something massive having weened us off bigger SUVs (had a couple of x5s on the trot prior to Mini) Looking at the longer range 4wd version. Reasonable range is important to me but i have a camper van if range anxiety an issue for a particular journey and for really long stuff I would probably be in that anyway.

I quite like the look of mach e but not wed to it.

Suggest away. Have 2 kids so space for 4 and a dog. Electric is good for me tax wise. I nearly bought i-Pace last car but decided against it but liked it very much. Company car allowance is approx 700 but can add or take away.

Kia e-Niro is actually IMO the best bet. Especially if you have a campervan for when you need lots of space. A lot of the other brands are posher but way worse on efficiency and range in reality, even if their battery sizes appear similar.

Is the reputation for Kia worse than Ford these days?

Spleen Sauce · 8 Feb 2022 at 20:57

Skidder said:
anyone got a mustang mach-e? any thoughts?

Debating whether to keep my mini countryman hybrid for a bit longer or change to mach-e or something else compltely electric in the summer

Mini has been excellent, my wife's short boring commute is all electric

If I were you I’d stick with the Countryman for another year or so if it’s serving it’s purpose. Balloon is probably going to be far less than what you could probably trade it in for at a complete guess with the current market so not likely to lose much by keeping it for a while. See what comes out in the next year or so.

RoboCod · 8 Feb 2022 at 21:12

Did make me chuckle to be fair.

SDK^ · 8 Feb 2022 at 22:14

RoboCod said:
Did make me chuckle to be fair.

It’s tough, for some the price has gone up from 5p kWh to 7.5p kWh :eek:

Basically means 10k EV miles has increased to about £280, from £190. Not a lot in the grand scheme of things.

Genuine question - what price is fuel running at now? It’s been about 16 months since I was last interested.

steve5424 · 8 Feb 2022 at 22:30

SDK^ said:
It’s tough, for some the price has gone up from 5p kWh to 7.5p kWh
Basically means 10k EV miles has increased to about £280, from £190. Not a lot in the grand scheme of things.

Genuine question - what price is fuel running at now? It’s been about 16 months since I was last interested.

Station near me is around 1.43p for unleaded and 1.51p for diesel.

Spleen Sauce · 8 Feb 2022 at 22:33

SDK^ said:
It’s tough, for some the price has gone up from 5p kWh to 7.5p kWh
Basically means 10k EV miles has increased to about £280, from £190. Not a lot in the grand scheme of things.

Genuine question - what price is fuel running at now? It’s been about 16 months since I was last interested.

If you can get an off-peak rate now as a new customer you're doing well. I'm currently on a fixed rate of aroun 20p kWh until October. In an area with zero SMETS1,2 or mobile signal so I'm scuppered when it comes to smart meters. And currently its still cheaper than fuelling my previous car.

Journey · 8 Feb 2022 at 22:35

Spleen Sauce said:
If you can get an off-peak rate now as a new customer you're doing well. I'm currently on a fixed rate of aroun 20p kWh until October. In an area with zero SMETS1,2 or mobile signal so I'm scuppered when it comes to smart meters. And currently its still cheaper than fuelling my previous car.

I didn't realise there were still places that people lived (on-grid) that had no mobile signal in the UK at all. :eek:

oweneades · 8 Feb 2022 at 23:27

SDK^ said:
It’s tough, for some the price has gone up from 5p kWh to 7.5p kWh
Basically means 10k EV miles has increased to about £280, from £190. Not a lot in the grand scheme of things.

Genuine question - what price is fuel running at now? It’s been about 16 months since I was last interested.

I have the fun of filling up my wife's Fiesta ST (1.6T) tomorrow as the garage I pass on the way to work is cheaper than the local supermarkets (go figure..). Probably not going to see much change from £60 to fill it up giving ~ 400 miles of real world range.

Our Kona on the other hand will charge tonight and give us ~ 110 miles for ~ £1.20 (so allowing for charging inefficiencies and my wife's lead right foot(!) around a fiver for the same 400 miles as the Fiesta...).

SDK^ · 9 Feb 2022 at 08:36

steve5424 said:
Station near me is around 1.43p for unleaded and 1.51p for diesel.

So for an ICE driver, 10k miles of fuel at 45mpg average consumption is about £1500. There is still a way to go in electricity price increases before EV's become close to this.
Even if the off-peak rate was to be stopped, the on-peak cost of 30p kWh for 10k miles is about £1,100 for me.