EV general discussion

Agreed, that sounds horrible.

I doubt even Nasher wants a fake gear stick and clutch complete with vibrations and caring torque levels. Why would anyone want to get rid of some of the advantages of electric drive and make it worse with a fake clutch? Utter madness.

I think it just shows how out of touch Toyota are with their core market and electric cars.
 
It’s a conversion and not really representative of a new car.

Nearly all conversions I have seen don’t need the gearbox but they use it because the motor needs a reduction gear of some description. It’s easier to use the existing gear box if it’s suitable than doing something custom. They just stick it in one gear and leave it, and 1st/2nd gear normally just results in tire smoke.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Why would anyone want to get rid of some of the advantages of electric drive and make it worse with a fake clutch? Utter madness.
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Some people have driving as a hobby, but only driving when it involves the most possible hassle try suggesting an automatic gearbox, let alone none at all and you'll be ridiculed for not being a 'proper driver' these are the tiniest of outliers who are the most vocal.

For the other 99.99% of the population who run a vehicle, it is primarily a mode of transport and the quieter, more comfortable, cheaper to run and easier to own, less servicing or parts going wrong the better.

I remember when my Nan had a gas fire installed to replace her coal burning Parkray fire, and she no longer needed the coal shed one of her daily routines was to clean out the fire, go shovel some coal, chop kindling etc. I can't imagine her ever thinking it would be great if I could have a gas fire and then need do all of the rubbish she no longer needed to do to heat her home. Then there are the people who do enjoy making a fire, and chopping wood etc. but again they are the tiniest %, the rest just want it easier. That is half the problem with BEV's to some people they have both benefits and drawbacks and they have never analysed their usage or gathered any data for one to outweigh the other, so they stick with what they know, or what appears easiest.
 
I get where you are coming from but I just can’t see how a fake gearbox and clutch can replace an ICE for enthusiasts.

It goes beyond the physicality of pressing a pedal and moving a stick. It’s the noise, the smell, the variations, the sense of mechanical connections etc and you can’t synthesise that easily with vibrating pedal, some pipes in v8 noise and a fake gear stick.

For one, you know it’s all fake, an ICE has certain characteristics that you just can’t fake, for example, in a sports car the whole thing vibrates to the tune of the engine and not just your left foot.

If you are about driving fast then it’s flappy paddle all the way in the ICE space already in which case an EV is basically the same from the driving dynamics (weight aside). What you are left with is noise and vibrations.
 
(gear selector sounds contrived) but if you had tiered torque output from an ev, you could maybe anticipate available traction better without using traction control (that responds retrospectively.)

watched the new astra phev autogefeul review
hybrid touch screen+physical controls , are definitely needed for my parents , if not me
only 25 miles from phev, but he confirms there should be an estate pure ev version coming,
does not seem to notice the increased 250KG from the phev battery, although (same chassis) 308 phev reviews criticized it.
the retro look is more successful than the ioniq5 it ressembles a bit.

saw my first mg zs ev estate in Aldi car park - exterior is nice - german/golf like
on their range I'd seen these types of comparison before but, this crystalizes the trade-off - travel slower, with fewer stops, consume less overall
Example 500 km route with the MG ZS EV (2021), departure SoC 100%, 20 degrees dry road:
Tempo 100, charge 2x, travel time 6:14 h, consumption: 87.73 kWh
Tempo 110, charge 3x, travel time 6: 06 h, consumption: 99.47 kWh
Tempo 120, charge 3x, travel time 6:00 h, consumption: 113.40 kWh
Tempo 130, charge 4x, travel time 6:05 h, consumption: 129.97 kWh
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b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s a conversion and not really representative of a new car.

Nearly all conversions I have seen don’t need the gearbox but they use it because the motor needs a reduction gear of some description. It’s easier to use the existing gear box if it’s suitable than doing something custom. They just stick it in one gear and leave it, and 1st/2nd gear normally just results in tire smoke.
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It’s an interesting idea in terms of controlling regen ! I’m aware it’s not a production car
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s a conversion and not really representative of a new car.

Nearly all conversions I have seen don’t need the gearbox but they use it because the motor needs a reduction gear of some description. It’s easier to use the existing gear box if it’s suitable than doing something custom. They just stick it in one gear and leave it, and 1st/2nd gear normally just results in tire smoke.
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Id rather have that, gives you more options. Probably better for towing too.
 
Journey said:
Some people have driving as a hobby, but only driving when it involves the most possible hassle try suggesting an automatic gearbox, let alone none at all and you'll be ridiculed for not being a 'proper driver' these are the tiniest of outliers who are the most vocal.
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I don't think that is a fair representation of people who can appreciate using a manual gearbox.

I enjoy a rip down the country lanes in my manual MX5 as much as I can appreciate how much better it would be if my work car was an automatic.

Just to play devils advocate... that Toyota setup would be quite good for training people to drive a manual ICE vehicle in a setting where it would be better to run an EV. It will be a hell of a long time before we see military adoption of EVs for example but that doesn't necessarily mean you don't want to run an EV for training purposes.
 
FerretBoy said:
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/toyota/357350/toyota-patents-simulated-manual-gearbox-electric-cars

I'll pass, buy hey might be a firm favourite for some of the regular change resistant members.
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This is weird, but I was actually wondering if this was a possibility the other day, to the point I considered starting a thread about it myself. I wasn't thinking of going as far as having a clutch pedal and gearstick, but it occurred to me that surely it should be fairly simple to be able to program an electric motor to vary it's torque output at different motor speeds.
If you then added simulated "gears" which the driver could manipulate using paddles, you could have an electric car which drives a such most of the time - but if the desire takes you, you could flick a switch and have it mimic the characteristics of an ICE car if you want a bit more engagement.

NB - I'm not resistant to change. It's not a contradictory stance to mourn the loss of ICE, but still be all for the adoption of EVs.
 
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