EV general discussion

Yeah but a typical extruded frame is pretty much 100kg on the money, hence I call foul on 100-200kg reduction.

The term parasitic is disingenuous.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Yeah but a typical extruded frame is pretty much 100kg on the money, hence I call foul on 100-200kg reduction.

The term parasitic is disingenuous.
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10% of the weight so do the maths from that.

The current architecture is parasitic as it has no significant contribution to the stiffness of the vehicle.
 
Journey said:
Just scanning the new local Lidl and noticed their rapid is 26ppkWh, that makes it cheaper than a lot of home non-EV tariffs, obviously it is also faster, even if less convenient, its also located near another huge retail park so it's not like you there aren't plenty of shops to use while you are charging.
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Yep, local Lidl Pod point charger is currently less PPKW than my new home off peak electric rate. :rolleyes:

No doubt that price won't last. Every time I've been there there's a queue of Teslas attempting to fill up there now.
 
delta0 said:
10% of the weight so do the maths from that.

The current architecture is parasitic as it has no significant contribution to the stiffness of the vehicle.
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oh it does! Unfortunately statements like that are removing the credibility of the point you are making.

Even Porsche say the Taycan body structure simply would not perform without the battery and the IPACE has 36kN/deg torsional rigidity from the significant contribution of the battery pack.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
oh it does! Unfortunately statements like that are removing the credibility of the point you are making.

Even Porsche say the Taycan body structure simply would not perform without the battery and the IPACE has 36kN/deg torsional rigidity from the significant contribution of the battery pack.
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Specifically for Tesla it does. Not really anymore I can contribute here. I have a PhD in this area and have done work for Tesla structural optimisation in the past.
 
Bug One said:
No doubt that price won't last. Every time I've been there there's a queue of Teslas attempting to fill up there now.
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I know it takes all sorts to make the world go round and all that but... do people really jump in their £42k+ car and drive to Lidl to then waste a chunk of time perusing the delights that the "middle of Lidl" is offering up that week. Or, perhaps, even make an afternoon of it to discover the wonderous delights of a neighbouring B&M or Home Bargains. All in a quest to save a few p per kW/h :confused:

Surely people must either have better things to do with their time or, if money genuinely is that tight, would be better off in a cheaper car in the first place.
 
You'd think so, but apparently not. They didn't even go into Lidl. :p

I'm guessing they're mostly new EV drivers and the novelty hasn't worn off.
 
delta0 said:
Specifically for Tesla it does. Not really anymore I can contribute here. I have a PhD in this area and have done work for Tesla structural optimisation in the past.
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model S transverse structure or model 3 longitudinal.

guess it’s academia head to head with application. How come Tesla used externals? Seems odd to be involved in optimisation yet has such a wideband guess of savings.

shame we never see anything from Tesla contributing to the euro car bodies events. I enjoyed the Mach E detailed report.
 
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Simon said:
How does it give 13% increase in range. Ah yes more battery
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I expect it’s across the EPA cycle and the weight saving contributes a bit and the new cells are a little more efficient. Together giving a decent increase in efficiency.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
model S transverse structure or model 3 longitudinal.

guess it’s academia head to head with application. How come Tesla used externals? Seems odd to be involved in optimisation yet has such a wideband guess of savings.

shame we never see anything from Tesla contributing to the euro car bodies events. I enjoyed the Mach E detailed report.
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I did my PhD back in 2009. The optimisation work for Tesla was later than that. Most OEMs use external contractors or in this case research partners to develop new vehicles, in this case the Model 3.
 
delta0 said:
I expect it’s across the EPA cycle and the weight saving contributes a bit and the new cells are a little more efficient. Together giving a decent increase in efficiency.
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Could you define what you mean by ‘cells more efficient’. It’s a term banded around but what efficiency are you talking about ? I assume energy transfer losses ? Or do you mean energy density. Or are you just guessing.

also range isn’t about battery efficiency. It’s literally the size of battery vs motor efficiency vs drag (aero and friction)
 
Stop regurgitating stuff you don’t understand then.

I’m laughing as you are using your Tesla experience as some sort of template of how the other OEMs work. The OEMs who have in-house capability, developed over decades, on how to build a coherent car without relying on bought in/hired expertise. But to be fair Tesla are very open about their in-house battery and motor tech whereas others do just buy in finished parts.
 
It will just mean they can squeeze in a bigger pack/more KwH into the same space. As you say it’s all about the available KWH vs drivetrain efficiency and drag.

Think Plaid+ (or whatever it was called) and the roadster with their totally unnecessary range. That’s just all about the big battery.

Very helpful for something like a HGV/Coach though.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
It will just mean they can squeeze in a bigger pack/more KwH into the same space. As you say it’s all about the available KWH vs drivetrain efficiency and drag.

Think Plaid+ (or whatever it was called) and the roadster with their totally unnecessary range. That’s just all about the big battery.

Very helpful for something like a HGV/Coach though.
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Yeah exactly. Need the big battery to provide enough energy to those monster motors. Just don’t mention the brakes
 
Simon said:
Stop regurgitating stuff you don’t understand then.

You are literally using your Tesla experience as some sort of template of how the other OEM work. The OEMs who have in-house capability to build a coherent car without relying on bought in/hired expertise.
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Again ?

I’ve worked for a major automotive in the UK from 2009 to 2015 as a structural engineer then I moved into tech where I actually get to do the innovative stuff and not just turning the handle on CAD and FEA that the monkeys do. As a result I get to work with lots of automotives across the world. In this case living in San Francisco back in 2016 for Tesla, Detroit for GM, Tokyo for Honda and Seoul for Hyundai/Kia. Those are just the main ones. I have a very in depth understanding of structural optimisation as I work on software to do the optimisation. It gives me a unique insight into all of the vehicles and the way they operate.
 
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