EV general discussion

[sandys]

XC40 Recharge is pretty expensive though

Expensive and inefficient, just how I like 'em the 1800kg tow rate was the draw for me.

The first editions came with leather, so might just be an economising/profit making/shortage issue.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

If it's the same as the podpoints at my local Tesco then they'll have 7kw chargers for free and fast chargers with contactless payment.

Best thing about it though is you get a massive parking space with minimal chance of being doored and right at the front of the car park

correct. Podpoints here in the town (Mevagissey) are 50p/kWh and 7kW! Hence took Defender this time rather than IPACE.

 

[jpaul]

7Kw is only single phase which is presumably cheaper hardware than a 3-phase 11kw supply, presumably why they are prepared to offer it for free.

smmt take on mar22 ice/phev/bev prices for private ownership

(! .... The UK’s current gigafactory capacity is approximately 2GWh – approximately enough to produce around 33,000 battery electric vehicles a year, although recent investment announcements will increase capability to at least 41GWh in the next five years. However, SMMT estimates that by 2030, this capacity will need to increase by a factor of 30 to reach at least 60GWh to manufacture of approximately one million BEVs a year. )

 

[Jonnycoupe]

The cost is the power supply to the unit. The hardware costs are marginally more

 

[touch]

7Kw is only single phase which is presumably cheaper hardware than a 3-phase 11kw supply, presumably why they are prepared to offer it for free.

It's subsidised by Tesco. 7kW only costs them a bit over £2 per hour (at domestic rates anyway, not sure what commercial unit rates are like?) so I'm sure it'll actually generate more money through extra sales than it costs.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

VW are paying install aren’t they aswell?

 

[JUMPURS]

It's subsidised by Tesco. 7kW only costs them a bit over £2 per hour (at domestic rates anyway, not sure what commercial unit rates are like?) so I'm sure it'll actually generate more money through extra sales than it costs.

The ones near me are also advertising screens too so someone will be reclaiming cash from that also.

 

[Journey]

Just scanning the new local Lidl and noticed their rapid is 26ppkWh, that makes it cheaper than a lot of home non-EV tariffs, obviously it is also faster, even if less convenient, its also located near another huge retail park so it's not like you there aren't plenty of shops to use while you are charging.

 

[paradigm]

Just scanning the new local Lidl and noticed their rapid is 26ppkWh, that makes it cheaper than a lot of home non-EV tariffs, obviously it is also faster, even if less convenient, its also located near another huge retail park so it's not like you there aren't plenty of shops to use while you are charging.

That sounds handy and quite a bargain. What were the chargers? 50kW?

 

[Journey]

That sounds handy and quite a bargain. What were the chargers? 50kW?

AFAIK yes, didn't need to charge it looks like the typical ABB unit that they have been using for sometime now, so I'd say 50kW.

 

[jpaul]

burning question for me , but interesting to see that new Y's with structural 4680 battery pack+castings are little lighter than older Y's with more battery capacity, not a game changing 200kg say.
Seems they handed them out to tesla employees at texas giga event .... I guess you can't pay for a tour of the factory in texas, would be interesting;

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/u1926z/confirmation_of_4680_in_279_mile_texas_model_y/

 

[Simon]

Why do people keep going on about structural batteries ? The ipace was launched with a structural battery. Anything bolted to the body without compliance bushings is going to add stiffness to the structure and hence be structural.

The battery cell change (bigger but less of them )for Tesla save on steel. That’s about it, there’s no fundamental cell power density improvement. If it’s a burning question for you then go an research and understand the tech rather than just positing a Reddit link

They glue the cells into the pack with a cooling ribbon running through the glue. A right mess to recycle to be honest.

 

[delta0]

burning question for me , but interesting to see that new Y's with structural 4680 battery pack+castings are little lighter than older Y's with more battery capacity, not a game changing 200kg say.
Seems they handed them out to tesla employees at texas giga event .... I guess you can't pay for a tour of the factory in texas, would be interesting;

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/u1926z/confirmation_of_4680_in_279_mile_texas_model_y/

Tesla is already making the lightest EVs for their size. I think the weight saving that comes from the structural pack will come over time. I don’t expect them to take away a lot of the other structure immediately when those packs go in plus for those packs to be structural they are going to need to be stronger and hence heavier. I think the initial weight savings will be marginal but grow over the years. A lot of the benefits of the structural pack are in assembly time and cost.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Guys the brain washing you all seem to be receiving is glued in batteries to the body Tesla term as structural is quite different to a traditional battery frame that holds modules and contributes to stiffness

the fact the 4680 cells are now so far away from the sill for side impact tells you all you need to know about their “structural contribution”

 

[Simon]

Delta. I suggest you read this which explains the benefit of the 4680 is for Tesla. Not the consumer. Quite why people are getting so excited about a battery cell is beyond me. It’s like getting excited about the type of cell in your remote for your tv. https://www.theteslaspace.com/latest-posts/the-4680-tesla-model-y-update-we-didnt-expect-blog

 

[delta0]

Guys the brain washing you all seem to be receiving is glued in batteries to the body Tesla term as structural is quite different to a traditional battery frame that holds modules and contributes to stiffness

the fact the 4680 cells are now so far away from the sill for side impact tells you all you need to know about their “structural contribution”

They aren’t going to put the load through the cells. Currently there is a chassis and then a battery pack that supports the cells. The battery pack is fairly hefty as it needs to hold the weight of the cells. As it doesn’t contribute to the stiffness of the chassis then you need chassis to also bear this weight. Hence it’s inefficient as the battery pack is a parasitic weight. Making it structural will reduce the amount of structure needed by around 100-200kg.

 

[delta0]

Delta. I suggest you read this which explains the benefit of the 4680 is for Tesla. Not the consumer. Quite why people are getting so excited about a battery cell is beyond me. It’s like getting excited about the type of cell in your remote for your tv. https://www.theteslaspace.com/latest-posts/the-4680-tesla-model-y-update-we-didnt-expect-blog

That’s a bit of a painful read. The 4680 will increase the range and reduce the cost. Last number I had was 13% increase in range.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Absolute rubbish. Sorry.

Either way, a non loaded pack is not structural contributing. The body structure and battery in a car are complementing each other, regardless of any marketing spin. Trust me I do this for a living.

I do recognise the optimisation Tesla have from selecting a tech with cooling plates away from the top of the cells so they can literally bolt the seats to the battery lid though.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I couldn’t agree more on that point, it’s all about cost reduction and overall density improvement.

That doesn’t mean you are going to get more capacity in the car though and frankly I’d prefer they work on the overall package rather than trying to get more range.

I’d much prefer manufacturers concentrate all their efforts scaling up, reducing the price and bringing new models to market than trying to inch out more range when they can already get 280miles on a charge. That really is good enough and they don’t need to put in more cells/capacity.

 

[delta0]

Absolute rubbish. Sorry.

Either way, a non loaded pack is not structural contributing. The body structure and battery in a car are complementing each other, regardless of any marketing spin. Trust me I do this for a living.

I do recognise the optimisation Tesla have from selecting a tech with cooling plates away from the top of the cells so they can literally bolt the seats to the battery lid though.

As do I. This is 1 about reducing the cost of manufacturing and assembly and 2 reduce mass. They have already said they will reduce the mass by around 100-200kg. I don’t have the exact number to hand. The structural battery takes out an entire step from the assembly line and it also allows loads of parts to be mounted directly to the battery like the seats. The weight is parasitic right now as it’s isolated from the structure. Once integrated you remove the extra structure needed to support the battery in the chassis. It’s like a stressed engine design used in high end cars. You are passing the load through the component but not in a way to damage it.

According to Musk, that will allow the car to have a 10 percent weight reduction, a range increase of up to 14 percent, and 370 fewer parts, which implies the manufacturing and production costs are much lower than the ones Tesla has nowadays.

https://uk.motor1.com/news/445307/tesla-battery-packs-part-body-structure/