EV general discussion

Tesla (as a car maker) is probably going to get sold off at some point anyway. Once the big players like Ford etc move in to the EV business Musk will close up and move full time in to his space program, especially if he gets that government funding he wants. It was never really going to be a long term thing.
 
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So was the German increase on EV subsidy (which must be OK under EU law) a partial incentive to tesla, and will the UK (under election promises, say) also revoke the reduction.
I can't see publicized info, on other sweeteners, they've been offered.

Chancellor Angela Merkel's office said officials and industry representatives agreed late Monday to increase by half the existing government incentives for electric vehicles.
Grants for plug-in hybrids will rise from €3,000 (£2,600) to €4,500 (£3,900).
For vehicles priced over €40,000 (£34,500) the subsidy will rise to €5,000 (£4,300).
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https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...e-electric-car-subsidies-VW-launches-car.html
.. it's obviously playing with 2nd hand values too.
 
Nasher said:
Tesla (as a car maker) is probably going to get sold off at some point anyway. Once the big players like Ford etc move in to the EV business Musk will close up and move full time in to his space program, especially if he gets that government funding he wants. It was never really going to be a long term thing.
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We have been hearing this for years. The established automakers will move into EVs and crush tesla...

So far Toyota have nothing.
BMW have nothing.
Mercedes have a car that's competing with a car Tesla launched 4 years ago.
VAG - see above and launching a car that tesla released over 2 years ago.

I don't see any progress from the incumbents.
 
Nasher said:
Tesla (as a car maker) is probably going to get sold off at some point anyway. Once the big players like Ford etc move in to the EV business Musk will close up and move full time in to his space program, especially if he gets that government funding he wants. It was never really going to be a long term thing.
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I dunno Elon is kind of passionate about it - I'm not sure he'd sell up or close up unless forced to due to financials i.e. to save SpaceX if it came to it, etc.
 
There is more than enough space in the market.

The Tesla band is very powerful and produces a far more profitable product than some of the other brands launched in the UK as of late (MG, Dacia etc.).

If they can make it work in China they are pretty much set.
 
jamoor said:
We have been hearing this for years. The established automakers will move into EVs and crush tesla...

So far Toyota have nothing.
BMW have nothing.
Mercedes have a car that's competing with a car Tesla launched 4 years ago.
VAG - see above and launching a car that tesla released over 2 years ago.

I don't see any progress from the incumbents.
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Tesla rushed to market and had the customers do the beta testing though (some of them died) and they are very overpriced for what they are. I guess the big players want to do things properly.
 
Tesla are going to be interesting. Sometimes a significant change in the market allow the disruptor to gain enough share they quickly become an established player.
Two examples, Apple and the iphone and Dyson and the vacuum, they both moved the market and quickly became established as not only an established player but in fact the new "leader"

Being able to maintain the position of leader is always hard, practically impossible for long periods, but right now in reality in the field of BEVs thats Tesla
Tesla have the advantage in that governments and citizens are asking to go the same way, so the other companies will have to follow.
Its fine to give another company a first mover advantage if its not significant, and they suffer much higher costs to get to this point, but if they get far enough ahead that your product becomes too poor in comparison and if there is limited brand loyalty then even a well established brand can go from player to failure. British car industry of the 70s being prime.
 
Mustang-E gets announced next Monday by Ford, an all electric car from them, odd they are using the Mustang and Mach branding, but hey ho.
 
Nasher said:
Tesla rushed to market and had the customers do the beta testing though (some of them died) and they are very overpriced for what they are. I guess the big players want to do things properly.
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As the posted above me mentioned, tell that to Motorola and Nokia in the early 2000s, or to Nintendo/Sega in the early 90s with regards to Sony or Microsoft. Dyson as above another great example.

I think current times are mega interesting in the world of cars, it is impossible to predict how the shift to EV will really take place.
 
You've got to love the hate people have, it stinks of jealousy and lack of education when it comes to forward thinking.

It's like those poor taxi drivers blaming Uber, there was nothing stopping them from making an app and keeping the market to themselves, but now they just cry about it.
 
Journey said:
You've got to love the hate people have, it stinks of jealousy and lack of education when it comes to forward thinking.

It's like those poor taxi drivers blaming Uber, there was nothing stopping them from making an app and keeping the market to themselves, but now they just cry about it.
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Yes there is, TFL regulate the black cabs :P
 
Let’s bring some facts to this conversation.

Journey said:
You've got to love the hate people have, it stinks of jealousy and lack of education when it comes to forward thinking.

It's like those poor taxi drivers blaming Uber, there was nothing stopping them from making an app and keeping the market to themselves, but now they just cry about it.
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No. Black cabs and 'traditional' private hire companies particularly dislike Uber because they do not operate their business in a sustainable way. They operate their business below cost so they can push established business out of the market. As it's below cost and paid for by investors competitors can't compete. Almost every Uber competitor is already on an alternative app platform including black cabs.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Well specifically in Londons case yes.
Most councils make money from licenced taxis, its my main conclusion behind the TFL and uber licence issue. TFL stand to loose money hence it suits them to side with the black cabs
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No, you couldn't be more wrong. Taxi and private hire regulation is on a cost recovery basis, TFL/councils are legally unable to make money from it. Please check your facts, 3 seconds on Google could have informed you with the correct information. It's what you'd say to some brexiter peddling their nonsense.

They don't want to give Uber a licence because TfL believe they do not follow the regulation correctly. Makes sense when you consider the business isn't run in a sustainable way, something has to give.

Journey said:
Yep, why innovate when you can regulate! :)
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Uber and their drivers is regulated like all private hire firms. The regulation is also far easier and cheaper to navigate, not exactly favoritism to black cabs. Particular around the type of vehicle you can use, a new black cab costs over £60k, let alone the knowledge in London. The regulation is actually there for your safety and to try and stop incidents like this happening:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Worboys

I don’t think there is anything to stop black cabs drivers using the Uber app, they just need to get the right ticket and sign up like everyone else. Again most black cabs are on an alternative platform already to compete with Uber, its such an important point I thought I'd mention it twice.

Now lets get back to EV's, has anyone been in one of the new electric black cabs?
 
Does Tesla have much of an IP portfolio - like the likes of Apple/Nokia/Dyson to help protect their position (is their/Pan battery tech just a trade secret)
that's what gave/gives some of those a set of loyal investors.

Maybe dyson will rue getting out of the solid state ev batteries
 
Yes, they open sourced a lot of their IP but not the 'secret sauce' needed.

Dyson is still going down the solid state route, they just ditched the car. The battery tech will still be very valuable to them and to licence. The car would have just been a money pit.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Let’s bring some facts to this conversation
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Tell me any local private hire firm that had an app like Uber offers, where you can see the truth Vs "yeah mate, I'm just around the corner" then turns up 20 mins late.

They didn't until Uber arrived, so let's interpret the comment as it was meant, an example of when it is to late to innovate as an incumbent and someone else gets there first. Which was about the BEV car market.
 
It's still a poor analogy. Like I said, their dislike for Uber isn't because they have an app. It's because the they sell their service for below cost. Usually at the expense of their drivers and investors.

Mini cabs where I used to live were GPS tracked long before Uber was a thing, they were able to give you an accurate ETA when you ordered it. The service was honestly great, their system had caller ID so you didn't need to give any details when you called either. Would have it been better with an app? Sure but they didn't exist back then.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
It's still a poor analogy. Like I said, their dislike for Uber isn't because they have an app. It's because the they sell their service for below cost. Usually at the expense of their drivers and investors.
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That's just basic business unfortunately. Same could be said of loads of industries - supermarkets vs corner shops, Amazon vs book shops (et al) etc. You can't really dislike someone too much for providing an equal or better service/product for the same/less price to the customer. It's annoying, sure, but the only answer is to improve.

Anyway, like you said, getting off topic :).
 
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