EV general discussion

Jonnycoupe said:
I love facts like that, especially when they are made up.
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jpaul said:
of course, but thought you had a tesla and they seem to have most open systems, if you are into home assistant the automation of ev charging could be handled similarly where you can write your own charging algorithm,
where you can say schedule your washing machine because you know the published TOU tarif is cheap at a particular time


just because you don't remember SMMT facts - have a look back through earlier posts, not just mine.
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VEH0142: Licensed plug-in vehicles (PiVs) at the end of the quarter by body type, fuel type, keepership (private and company) and upper and lower tier local authority: United Kingdom (ODS, 5.76 MB)

2022 Q32020 Q1Added since 2020
Company307,10741,285265,822
Private232,38466,386165,998
 
stuie said:
it all depends on how you buy your cars
if all you do is 3 year leases and swap them out then im sure EV's are better value
if you want to buy a car and keep it for 10 years, EV's just arnt an oprion compared to ICE or Hybrids, Ive just bought an IS300H, if the batteries die I dont have to throw the car away cause swapping the batts is more costly than the value of the car.
Once batteries get to being realistically usable beyond 10-15 years things might change till then the 3 -5 year old second hand car market will still be for fuel based cars
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It’s usually the opposite that is the case.

The longer you keep the car, the more the BEV makes sense. It’s the upfront cost that makes the typical 3 year lease/PCP that makes the BEV feel expensive, once you get into years 4 plus, the significantly lower fuel costs is what makes the ICE more expensive.

jpaul said:
of course, but thought you had a tesla and they seem to have most open systems, if you are into home assistant the automation of ev charging could be handled similarly where you can write your own charging algorithm,
where you can say schedule your washing machine because you know the published TOU tarif is cheap at a particular time
Click to expand...

I do have a tesla but I’m still not getting the link. Tesla can’t see what solar is being produced in the property (unless you have a power wall and a tesla charger).

Solar integration needs local real time control to stop unnecessary grid use. Going via the internet isn’t fast enough to deal with how quickly your export can change (E.g. you put the kettle on).

Tesla’s API isn’t officially open and there are real risks in using it with third parties. By using it you hand over the keys to your car, who ever has your API token and see where you car is, unlock it and drive it away.

There is actually home assistant integration for the hypervolt so you can automate the shortcomings of the charger (automating the mode switch at dusk and dawn) but I don’t tell people that’s a real solution because it isn’t.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
I’m not sure I buy the convenience point, my tesla has been no more or less convenient than my old ICE.

I drove up to Scotland a few weeks ago, ~400 miles and the best part of 7 hours driving. The car needed to stop twice to charge for 20 mins each to get up there. I needed to stop more frequently and as such we were not waiting for the car at all.

Edit: to be clear, that assumes you have somewhere to charge! I wouldn’t buy an EV if I didn’t.

Yeh I get costs, particularly if you want to get out the leasing game or your circumstances change.



What do you mean by offset solar?

The way it works is that the charger has three modes, super eco, eco, normal. The charger as a power monitoring clamp that goes onto the main cable going into your house. It monitors for power going out from your house and being exported to the grid, it matches the charge rate of the car to make that export zero (or close to). For car charging you need a minimum power of 1.4kw and most chargers that support solar have these three modes.

On super eco the charger will only take excess solar, if the excess solar drops below 1.4kw, charging stops.

On eco, the charger will maintain a minimum of 1.4kw charge rate and fill in any gaps with grid energy.

On normal it will charge at 7.4kw all the time.

Unfortunately you have to manually swap between those modes and any schedule you may want to apply, it doesn’t take take the excess solar in the day if you left it on an overnight schedule and forgot to swap it and vice versa, you may wake up to an empty car if you forgot to swap it back to an overnight charge.

They say they are working on that but I don’t buy things on the promise of a future update.

If you have a hot water cylinder or plan to get one, you may be better off with a Zappi so you can also use their Eddi device. The zapppi is cleverer than a hypoervolt but it looks a bit like a toilet seat (sorry- once you have seen it, you can’t un-see it).
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Our solar panels go directly to the consumer unit and only demand that exceeds the solar output is pulled from the grid. We don't give back to the grid, not in any meaningful way at least. Therefore, I suspect it won't make a jot of difference to the HyperVolt and I can leave it non-solar setting.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s usually the opposite that is the case.

The longer you keep the car, the more the BEV makes sense. It’s the upfront cost that makes the typical 3 year lease/PCP that makes the BEV feel expensive, once you get into years 4 plus, the significantly lower fuel costs is what makes the ICE more expensive.



I do have a tesla but I’m still not getting the link. Tesla can’t see what solar is being produced in the property (unless you have a power wall and a tesla charger).

Solar integration needs local real time control to stop unnecessary grid use. Going via the internet isn’t fast enough to deal with how quickly your export can change (E.g. you put the kettle on).

Tesla’s API isn’t officially open and there are real risks in using it with third parties. By using it you hand over the keys to your car, who ever has your API token and see where you car is, unlock it and drive it away.

There is actually home assistant integration for the hypervolt so you can automate the shortcomings of the charger (automating the mode switch at dusk and dawn) but I don’t tell people that’s a real solution because it isn’t.
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Untill you get hit with an 8k bill for batteries
 
stuie said:
Untill you get hit with an 8k bill for batteries
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No different to an ICE engine that decided to lunch itself once out of warranty.

Well there is a difference, few ICE cars come with an 8 year warranty on their drivetrain where as almost all BEVs do.

Before you say, but you could get another from a breaker, the same would apply to a BEV.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
No different to an ICE engine that decided to lunch itself once out of warranty.
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I think the difference is that is rare with ICE, how many people have bought an engine, the reality is they never really fail in that short a time frame, I've taken so many cars well over 100k, the junkers I drive now are 12 and 16 yrs old, no range loss, never bought an engine outside of competition, where as it is a fact that any battery tech based on lithium ion will degrade, you'd be lucky to get a replacement on the 8 year warranty due to the high level of degradation that is allowed.

In addition, it is not just the fuel source of an EV that degrades but of course you have electric motors and associated bumpf that won't last for ever too, so I doubt any one type of machine is better than another, just a different set of potential issues.

I walk on the wild side, risk is my middle name :D , my car has ICE, HV battery and two electric motors...... :o I'm asking for trouble, all the positives, all the pitfalls, winner! :D

Even so, for me battery degradation of a BEV would likely be a non issue, I would do quite low battery cycles I reckon an EV would last me long enough that the main concern would be the rest of the car falling apart :D

We would be all BEV for day to day, if we didn't tow, missus loves the EV ness of our current car and has already said we should have just bought an EV despite being the one against it. :rolleyes:
 
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stuie said:
it all depends on how you buy your cars
if all you do is 3 year leases and swap them out then im sure EV's are better value
if you want to buy a car and keep it for 10 years, EV's just arnt an oprion compared to ICE or Hybrids, Ive just bought an IS300H, if the batteries die I dont have to throw the car away cause swapping the batts is more costly than the value of the car.
Once batteries get to being realistically usable beyond 10-15 years things might change till then the 3 -5 year old second hand car market will still be for fuel based cars
Click to expand...

EVs are terrible on leases. There is a massive premium for no reason.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
I do have a tesla but I’m still not getting the link. Tesla can’t see what solar is being produced in the property (unless you have a power wall and a tesla charger).
Click to expand...
seems folks have already used HA and the tesla API , so that you tell it to charge when you have a pv/battery surplus ... you could do away with smart chargers, but, need a PC running HA.
community.home-assistant.io

Optimizing use of unused Solar Power to charge a Tesla

@icepicknz I am using the HACS tesla integration (for the car)
community.home-assistant.io community.home-assistant.io
I doubt other EV's have such open API's

"if tesla_is_home and tesla_is_plugged_in and tesla_is_not_fully_charged: if grid_not_in_use and powerwall_charge_level > powerwall_reserve: if solar_production_is_active: if powerwall_charge_level >= 80: start_tesla_charging(tesla_is_charging, tesla_charge_rate, target_charge_rate) else: start_tesla_charging(tesla_is_charging, tesla_charge_rate, target_charge_rate) else: stop_tesla_charging(tesla_is_charging)"
 
jpaul said:
seems folks have already used HA and the tesla API , so that you tell it to charge when you have a pv/battery surplus ... you could do away with smart chargers, but, need a PC running HA.
community.home-assistant.io

Optimizing use of unused Solar Power to charge a Tesla

@icepicknz I am using the HACS tesla integration (for the car)
community.home-assistant.io community.home-assistant.io
I doubt other EV's have such open API's

"if tesla_is_home and tesla_is_plugged_in and tesla_is_not_fully_charged: if grid_not_in_use and powerwall_charge_level > powerwall_reserve: if solar_production_is_active: if powerwall_charge_level >= 80: start_tesla_charging(tesla_is_charging, tesla_charge_rate, target_charge_rate) else: start_tesla_charging(tesla_is_charging, tesla_charge_rate, target_charge_rate) else: stop_tesla_charging(tesla_is_charging)"
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I know, but you missed my point. Just because you can and it sort of works doesn’t mean it’s a real solution you should actually deploy.

A proper solar capable charger will be monitoring your solar export multiple times a second and adjusting its output accordingly and it’s so simple anyone can deal with it.

Home assistant, not so much…
 
many people are au-faite with Home assistant - the new OVO tarif can satisfy those that aren't who want plug&forget
tell the app how much charge you need & target time, and it will feed it at 10pKw/h when the electricity is cheap, they then reimburse those units from your standard EPG rate (don't need to pay the GO premium day)
 
So nothing to do with common Tesla api automation script?

Sounds like you’ve muddled up your tarriffs there, Octopus Intelligent allows full home use not just car so load shifting has merit, don’t then mention the Go peak rate… just needs some maths.

Looks like budget may confirm the price limit is held until April and then OFGEM drop prices to catch up with wholesale prices.
 
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It is unfortunately true

This research was released about a week ago: https://www.transportenvironment.or...charging-drivers-for-electric-cars-new-study/

Leasing deals for battery electric vehicles (BEVs) are being overpriced, new analysis by T&E of the used car market finds. In Europe, leasing offers for BEVs are on average 57% more expensive than their equivalent petrol models. For example, leasing an electric Peugeot 208 costs approximately €574 a month, whilst the petrol Peugeot 208 is offered at €371.

Battery electric cars have similar resale value to diesel and petrol vehicles, the analysis finds. Leasing companies typically charge customers for the expected loss in value of a vehicle over the three to four year lease, so higher lease prices mean they expect BEVs to lose more of their value. But this is no longer the case.

The higher leasing prices for battery electric cars are unjustified. T&E analysis of 2.7 million used car prices reveals that BEVs do not depreciate more than other types of cars. Depreciation for BEVs in Europe’s biggest markets (Germany, France and the UK) is on par with diesel and petrol. In Spain there is still a difference but the gap is closing.
 
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